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Stripping RSVR Factory frame

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albrown001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 11:00
Started doing that now where I can as getting bits everywhere. Anything that is screwed in to the frame though has got to come out so I have tried to keep it with the bits that came off. Taken photos as I go as well.

Once the engine has come out I think the rest is not going to take long at all. I'll clean everything up whilst the frame is getting done so when I get it back I can just put it all back together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 11:04
when i stripped down my old 1100 gixer i had 2 pasting tables with containers and in the order i took pieces off i put them on or eventually under the tables,all in bags,boxes,containers etc so that nothing went missing.all  tagged with where they came from. .....
 
if in doubt take photo's to refer back to later.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 11:18
Same here here . when dropped engine out of a gsxr everything had photos and all bits where put in seperate containers labelled up . certainly helps a lot .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 13:19
just a thought
 
do you really want a fully polished frame as its a sh*t to keep on top off... keeping clean and polished i mean


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 13:51
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

when i stripped down my old 1100 gixer i had 2 pasting tables with containers and in the order i took pieces off i put them on or eventually under the tables,all in bags,boxes,containers etc so that nothing went missing.all  tagged with where they came from. .....
 
if in doubt take photo's to refer back to later.

Sound advice. I have 'binge watched' all 3 series of Elementary though and its all in my mind attic. Everything is in its right place at the moment. Can't say it will be tomorrow or after a couple of beers Smile

Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

just a thought
 
do you really want a fully polished frame as its a sh*t to keep on top off... keeping clean and polished i mean

To be fair not sure. I had a lovely red and white 06 RSVR before this one and loved the alloy frame. I then bought this Factory. Love it and keeping it, but hate the gold frame. Never liked it. It doesn't match any other part of gold on the bike and I think lets it down.

Had a couple of ideas already. Polished, like the standard RSVR and also scotchbrite finish which I also think would look good. Not sure on which one but I am more leaning towards polished at the moment. It will be clear coated on top after polishing. Painting and anodising is not going to happen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 13:59
On the off chance any of you gurus know what this box is? 

You can see the 3 connectors, brake light switch, speedo sensor and lambda sensor. In between the lambda sensor (big black connector) there is a box which fits in between the two connectors. Is this part of the Power Commander auto tune set up and has been added to the bike? Or is this part of OEM set up?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 14:15
That's the 02 optimiser. It's usually there to allow a bike with the Ecu still in closed loop mode to run a custom map and ignore the oem Lambda reading or if you want to run an aftermarket header with no Lambda fittings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 14:30
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

That's the 02 optimiser. It's usually there to allow a bike with the Ecu still in closed loop mode to run a custom map and ignore the oem Lambda reading or if you want to run an aftermarket header with no Lambda fittings.

Cheers Spoonz. Helpful as always. 

Would the O2 optimiser be part of the Power Commander 5 stuff I bought?

The bike has full akro system on it and evo air box. Tuning wise, is this the set up I should have and its been done right with the custom map? I know its the best its ran since owning the bike but it was a bit of a dog when I first got it. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 14:47
Originally posted by albrown001 albrown001 wrote:


Would the O2 optimiser be part of the Power Commander 5 stuff I bought?

The bike has full akro system on it and evo air box. Tuning wise, is this the set up I should have and its been done right with the custom map? I know its the best its ran since owning the bike but it was a bit of a dog when I first got it. 

 
It is part of a power commander setup yes. If the full Akra has no Lambda fittings then they would need the optimiser to run the bike with no Lambda fitted. The Diags in the ecu have to see the Lambda is present even if it's not being used and that part mimics it to fool the diags.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 14:59
Thanks m8. Really helpful.

Is it worth unscrewing the oil pressure sensor incase it gets damaged when removing the engine or leave it in?

I am presuming removing the oil pipes that are under the engine would be a good idea too?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 15:12
It might be worth talking to Griff as he is doing it in his sleep and will know the common pitfalls but I know generally they use 2 bods when lowering and raising the motor as it's not easy watching everything on your own.

When we did Garin's Big Bore the injector plug got trapped so watch for wires getting pinched as you lower the motor, There wasn't any issues with the oil pressure sensor that I recall but the oil pipes are at risk of getting crushed so I would pull them off if it were me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 16:02
Ok thanks Spoonz will do.

Another question for you or and all the other gurus.

I am sourcing polishing and top coat for protection. Advice I have been given so far is chemical dipped to get rid of the paint and not to aqua blast but to then go straight to polishing and I have found a couple of companies near me to do it. 

But for protection on top of polishing I have been advised that the factory stuff is most likely clear anodising and not a lacquer.

Anyone know if this is whats is actually on the swing arm and not a clear coat of lacquer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 16:15
100% it's clear anodised. Laquer will do the job but won't last as long.
If you chip it water often gets underneath and spreads as laquer just sits on the metal whereas that doesn't happen with anodising as it penetrates into the metal surface itself by a micron or 2.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 16:43
Cheers Spoonz. It will be getting clear anodising then. I had a feeling it was the more research I had to do.

I'm going to clean up the swing arm and take it in to the anodising place so they can tell me how polished the frame needs to be to match the finish of swing arm after it has been clear anodised.

I can't really rework the swing arm again as I was advised not to do it, so only real economical solution is to match the frame with the swing arm. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 12:09

Just got the Constand. Took 3 days to get here from Germany which I think is exceptional for £4 delivery. Its also £50 cheaper than anything else I could find in the UK. I got change from sixty squid buying this. Its bloody heavy, I suppose it would be having to do what it has to do. It has a max lift capacity of 1000lbs, just under 1/2ton. Should be alright with me sitting on it then…. Smile I also like the re movable hex key so I can stick a socket on the end of it to jack it up or lower it if I want to.

Just to wait for the swing arm removal kit from abba stands and its engine out time. Wish me luck Confused



Just got these through about 2hrs later Clap






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickyBoy1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2015 at 23:59
Yaay nice one matey, following this thread hehe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shyted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2015 at 23:51
albrown . If your looking to get the look of a none painted,factory finished frame,then the finish is actually acid anodizing. They dip to clean, acid etch then anodize with hot sulfuric acid solution , but you can have a variety of finishes even gold again that matches the wheels.
If you polish first after it's been dipped,the finish will have more luster .Like this.

Before.
 


After.
 

I used to be uncertain , but now i'm not sure anymore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 01:07
Cheers m8. That looks mint.

I have a friend who says he can clear anodise the frame. Thing is its not going to cost me much to get it done as I know him. I spoke to the polishers and they can highly polish the frame for around £100. 

Still open to suggestions, but at the moment going to take my swing arm to my friend to have a look at and ask him how shiny does the frame need to be to match the swing arm. I know I can bring the finish up on my swing arm quite easily but I really want my frame and swing arm to match. I don't think I will end up with a frame brighter than my swing arm, but probably wouldn't look to bad if it was to be fair.

I'm looking at dropping the engine tomorrow so should have the frame and swing arm ready to go next week. 

Don't think I'm going to see the bike back together till end of Jan to be fair Unhappy


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shyted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 10:51
If you want a perfect match,do both together.
The bearings in the swinging arm on the needle roller side need careful attention though.
If you want it close enough a man on a flying horse won't notice then just do the frame and live happily ever after.If you like i will get photo of the finish on the two ensemble . Every one who sees it now asks if i bought a replacement and when i tell them it cost £40 total including the fuel to deliver and collect it 
the questions start because the finish is that good.
Give us a nod if you want a pic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 11:47
I did look at that. My friend who is going to do the clear anodising advised against it. It can be done but all the old stuff would have to be ground off, or polished off which would cost a lot of money. Also spoke to the polishing guys and they said that it was not advisable too. I believe that consecutive anodising is not a good idea to the metal either talking to my friend. 

I think just doing the frame will be the most economical way of doing it on my budget. However it turns out and whatever I end up doing, it has got to be better than the awful gold colour.

I got a bit stuck last night as couldn't get a couple of hex bolts out on the front of the bike as they had rusted in. So just walked away. Did they this morning. Learnt a trick from the RC car world of getting knackered hex bolts out by smacking in a star drive with a hammer. They just popped out after that. No problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 12:19
have i got this right
the frame is already anodised this needs acid dipping/un-anodising then polishing and reanodising
 
so the swingarm needs the same surely ,acid dipping/un-anodising,polishing then reanodising?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 13:20
We get a lot of alloy stuff anodized at work and it's not a particularly good idea to have more than one go at it.

We have both clear and colour done and second time round is never as good as original, plus it plays havoc with maufacturing tolerances. Although tbf we work in microns for most of our parts.

Clear anodizing also shows up any scratches or blemishes,the best finish I find comes after tumbling as it removes all machining marks but that is not appropriate for a bike frame.

Also,when anodizing make sure any helicoils or other steel parts etc are removed,it makes an awful mess otherwise Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shyted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 13:23
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

have i got this right
the frame is already anodised this needs acid dipping/un-anodising then polishing and reanodising
 
so the swingarm needs the same surely ,acid dipping/un-anodising,polishing then reanodising?
Yes dip the lot it's the same process and where i caused myself many hours unnecessarily rubbing down.
When i got to the anodizer he laughed at me and said "we just strip them in the tank,that preps the surface for etching too".
The comment i made about the bearings is they need to come out for the process so you have an additional cost . The arm needs getting up to temp as well to remove the needle roller cage , for easy removal. Getting them in without damaging is the thing so heat up for 10 mins again and have the bearings in the deep freeze.Don't forget to measure the depth they're pushed in too.
The thing that anyone needs to understand is, 1 , any marks or corrosion area marks will stay.
2 All other metal needs to be stripped off.
The finished product is well worth the effort.
I used to be uncertain , but now i'm not sure anymore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shyted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 13:26
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

We get a lot of alloy stuff anodized at work and it's not a particularly good idea to have more than one go at it.

We have both clear and colour done and second time round is never as good as original, plus it plays havoc with maufacturing tolerances. Although tbf we work in microns for most of our parts.

Clear anodizing also shows up any scratches or blemishes,the best finish I find comes after tumbling as it removes all machining marks but that is not appropriate for a bike frame.

Also,when anodizing make sure any helicoils or other steel parts etc are removed,it makes an awful mess otherwise Embarrassed
Ha ha we must have read and commented at the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 16:39
Yeah LOL,

Anodizing is the bane of my life,most parts we make have precision fits for bearings and dowels etc and the customers always want tolerances to apply after anodizing.

If we finish holes a few microns oversize to allow for growth they never grow enough ,and if we finish them to size they always end up too tight.

Leaving them u/s and finish machining post treatment means two separate ops and we run the risk of damaging the finish.

It's a no win situation really as the anodizers can't guarantee growth, although they quote figures they can't or won't stand by them.

None of this is relevant to bike frames though I think,although those bearing fits you mentioned perhaps need plugging for safety? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 16:43
Have you seen the diamondyze that camcoat are now doing, similar to anodising but the diamondyze goes about 70% internally they reckon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 17:04
That looks very interesting,thank you Thumbs Up

Apart from bike parts for me I'll bring this to works attention,as even at greater initial cost it could save a costly 2nd op on many parts.

One sticking point could be that our customers range from Medical through Defense and all points in between,and they often specify certain processes.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2015 at 17:42
Thanks for the replies guys.

Got the engine out. Not too hard to be fair. The Constand I bought from Germany is well worth the money. I used my battery drill with a socket on it to lower it. It worked a treat.

The Abba stand is mint too. One tip I will be doing next time and when putting the engine back is putting the front lift arm on it as the stand is too easily over-balanced forward with the swing arm off. Just makes the stand a lot more solid with the bar on. Personally I think it would be a good thing to put it on there in most cases when working on the bike. Especially if you have a plywood floor in your garage or shed.

I had no shims between the front engine mounts. Just the big thick spacers that hold the radiator mounts. Are there supposed to be shims in there? 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 16:06
I'm really glad I did this now. I think that this engine has been out of the bike, or someone has been tinkering and not sure what they were doing. The lower right rear engine bolt was loose, the top right engine bush wasn't even touching the engine and the bolt wasn't done up and one of the front left engine bolts wasn't done up.

Also found a big chip inside the steering stem where someone had tried to knock the inner race out and chipped the alloy. There is only one key way access on the top one on mine so I had to used a screwdriver on one side and just gently tap it out and used a hex driver on the other side. The frame inside had quite a bit chip in it where someone has obviously twatted it with a screwdriver and not looked what they were doing. 

Any road, cleaned the frame off and swing arm ready for next week. There are two press in thread inserts inside the frame where the ignition coil bolts screw in to. Not sure if these are alloy or steel. If they are steel then they won't be in there after anodising Ouch

The frame has also got lumps of rubber inside it that are put in there as its been made. Not sure what will happen to them either. You can't get them out.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 18:59
Originally posted by albrown001 albrown001 wrote:

There are two press in thread inserts inside the frame where the ignition coil bolts screw in to. Not sure if these are alloy or steel. If they are steel then they won't be in there after anodising Ouch


They sure won't if they're steel,and neither will the alloy around where they used to be Ouch

I sent something for anodising once complete with helicoils,big,BIG mistake.

It not only blew big holes in the alloy but the platers were on our backs as it ruined their tanks and the other contents.

If in doubt,get them out.

One would like to think the guy doing the treatment would check parts for suitability but given the standard of foreign muppet employed these days,or even dumb Brits with a grievance they could quite likely chuck it in anyway just to watch what happened. 

Just as an afterthought,you'd think Aprilia would have had a matching colour/finish on the s/arm ?
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