So they face straight or even a little bit outwards then i will double the air forced into the air box.

Should give me a denser hit of air to the cylinder no?

I know the throttle bodies and ports remain same size.

But more air compressed in airbox = bigger dose no?

Tweek the fuel and hey presto bigger bang???

Theorys welcome👍

Go for it

I'm glad someone else thought outside the box

I did it on my track bike years ago,along with Edwards tubes and a big boot airbox sleeved with the stubs of the later airbox which I cut off to blend so there is no hot frame exposed to the cold air.

Did it make any difference?  Probably not,but it was free to do and lots of little things add up if you do enough of them.   Incremental engineering heh?

I seem to recall you're limited when bending them out unless you cut the corners back and then use epoxy or glass to blend bigger corner rads.

But im thinking once in the airbox it will be compressed because of extra air being forced in?

It dosent have anywhere to go once its in the airway but the air box.

??

Probably more effect gained by keeping the boiling hot frame away from the incoming air.

Edwards tubes lightly reduced on the O/D so they go through the rail further then butcher your old air boot and use the lower arms to mate in the rails from the inside and butt up to the Edwards tubes,far better than either of the Aprilia options.

If you cut it right you can mate the cut stubs through the earlier airboot and practically blend the two

Not perfect by any means but at least it's flaring the right way.

Possibly not gaining any more than a couple of BHP if any at all but the principle still stands that you need the maximum amount of COLD air you can manage

I was planning on just bending the wings not the full monty with the pipes and stuff.

Nice to hear someone has tried it out before.

Maybe ill have a little tinker

Difficult to say tbh,I fitted a modded collector, EVO airbox mod plus those mods at the same time

Also think I went to a 15 T on the front sprocket then as well so everything felt totally different,I do recall it felt like a bigger engine

As you can see,marginal bends on the air intakes without cutting and glassing

I think ill try it.   Let you know how it feels once im allowed out.  I have a fiew performance bits just aprilia ones so ill defo know if it feels different.

Havent changed anything for a couple of yrs. 

And no,I didn't have my knee down and yes,I was bricking it 

That was Turn 6  Dry Sack at Jerez at the end of the long straight and my mate that had been in front of me had his bike jump out of gear and had just speared straight off through the kitty litter 

Pressure control valve? For crank breather?

I dont have one!  Just a straight breather from head to airbox.

I have one way valves for clutch assist!

Do i need to look for it someone else hemi?

426hemi wrote: You would also need a pcv 5 with auto tune to be able to alter fuelling on the fly to compensate for the air.

I doubt it would need it for the marginal flow increase, I would expect the ecu to compensate slightly like an altitude change?

Anyway,it's free try it

I don't know where you are with the intake Phil but Ian covered most of the tried and tested mods from over the years.

I have a modded collector from Mark on here (Redratbike) matched with an EVO airbox, the early Gen1 Air Boot (Less restrictive) and the Edwards Intake Tubes as well as an FR200 chip. It's important to have the TB's balanced AFTER all the mods are done too. As Ian says, with all that done - And it was probably mainly the collector but the other bits would all help incrementally - the increase in mid-range was amazing and much more control in the lower rev range for the road.

Pete 86 wrote:  hope hes ok👍

I think he actually sh*t himself although he kept the bike upright somehow, I seem to recall a thin grass strip on the l/h side leading to the corner marshals post

His Duc 849 ? turned out to have a dodgy selector fork and one iffy spark plug we found out when we got home.

It wasn't a happy holiday for him but better than another guy who bought a new to him MV F4 along and came to change tyres first session on track.

We watched for ages all the people trying torque guns and long breaker bars trying to get the back wheel nut undone.  By the time we wandered over and asked if the muppets knew it was a L/H thread they'd already burnt out one industrial gun and damaged the impact socket.

Amazing how many people said " bollocks,a Ducati isn't like that"

It took someone who'd raced one the previous season to convince them we knew the truth. Even after they tried a 3' breaker bar with a handy fence post on the end in the correct direction it wouldn't shift.  MV locked up for the next 3  days and he drank much Spanish beer instead.

Still better than another of my mates who shipped his ex BSB 'blade over with all his kit .... and his passport in his leathers      Customs at Manchester not amused and sent him home

I knew I did something else as well,it was the FR200 chip and yes I had Griff set the balance afterwards.

Really nothing short of a B/B is going to have much effect,far better playing with your suspension instead so you can try and use all you have available more of the time.

Suspension tuning is MUCH more fun

Now heres my piont!

I used the pipes on each throttle intake thats ok.

But i used the brass air bypass screws on the left hand side to sync them.

Now the thing is when you ballance the throttle bodys usually you adjust the throttle plates to equal the air flow on each port.

But the throttle plates on a mille SHARE THE SAME SHAFT so its impossible to adjust them individually. 

Can anyone confirm that or tell me im wrong and their is another procedure????

Cheers guys.

Pete, you need the Aprilia kit to do the TB's - as well as someone who can use it properly - it's not as simple as using mercury gauges (I have those as well), you need to adjust the fuel mixture too.

I got Griff at AP to do mine. I'm even further away from their base than you but I had mine done on one of his away day service days and I went to a forum members house in York. I've not heard of any recently (Of course nothing at the moment) so you would need to check if he is still doing them. If not, it's worth the trip to Tamworth just for that as at the end of the day we ride these things for fun so just plan a fun route.

Believe me it will be worth it, after mine was done the low speed running was vastly improved with no jerking or stuttering from as low as 2500rpm. I bought my bike new and it had never ran as well.

reomended.

Rear 1 turn out

Fromt 1.5 turns out.

Is that correct guys?

Seems about right from what I can remember

While the theory about pressure/volume etc is undoubtedly correct the little difference a few degrees of intake flap will make it's largely irrelevant either way I submit.

For starters these engines are only a step away from an agricultural ditch pump when running well,the cam timing can be up to 14 degrees + - from optimum just by tolerance and that's before the pressed on lobes walk slightly and open both valves asymmetrically.

I also tried adjusting my throttle bodies with a good set of vac gauges,when Griff checked them properly using the gas analyser probes they were so far out he was surprised the engine still ran so not recommended

That was sort of my point,a few degrees of entry flap bend isn't really going do much on its own

However, as a general principle anything that increases the chance of getting the maximum possible flow of COLD air to the airbox has to be good I would suggest.

The engineer side of me feels that just because Aprilia didn't do x,y or z as OE years ago,due to whatever pressures were on them at the time I doesn't mean it shouldn't be done now if someone has a mind to try and doesn't mind potentially not getting the hoped for benefit. 

The opposite calculating side says,stop flogging a dead horse and just go and buy a modern bike that reliably does more than what you want as supplied.

I appreciate lots of people will disagree with the second option and will keep trying to upgrade the venerable Mille into a KTM beater so  , why not?  it gives one a challenge in life

One fact I've just remembered is that in their heyday Renegade always got consistently higher BHP figures on their Fuchs dyno compared with a Dynojet which was put down to the efficiency of their big cooling fans blasting air at front of the bike which Dynojet didn't use.

I agree it probably didn't translate in the real world but it would seem to illustrate the point?

Im no engineer but im a grease monkey for ducati leeds and i love to tinker.

Im also going to heat up my headers and squash them in the vice HAHA. Just after the flange to the head.

just like on the ducatis .

Create a 'venturi' effect on the gasses out of the ex port, speed it up eh. If i can speed it out that will help speed it in eh.

I think that exhaust pipe venturi on the dukes have something to do with the crazy tourqe very low down that the mille dosent have.

Ill let you know if it runs when im done

   Reminds me of the then revolutionary Janspeed Maniflo?  technology from way back further than I care to admit.

They found that matching port and pipe was counter indicated and by having (as I recall it) a D shape pipe against a round port with the D on the pipe bottom under hanging the port it effectivelly stopped a lot of flow reversion at certain revs and gave a noticeable increase in power and more importantly torque everything else being equal.

Experiments like that are fine as long as you except you could easily f*kc up the fuelling and need to optimise everything again on a dyno

Il be carefull. And yep i will get it dyno'd afterwards.

Ill get it to Jordan bikes arround the corner.

Tried it on the 2 strokes by opening top of ex and bottom of inlet ports +polishing ports. I like to try air system tune, yes it is for my road bike but i live for track days.

I will never sell this bike as it is my 1st bike after i passed my test in 2018.

It cost me a grand as a non runner so i have a bike thats begging to be tampered with lol.

It is my road going race bike that isnt a racebike if thst makes sense.

Until i get it to oulton

I do get it, I’m all for modding but I think your barking up the wrong tree with your suggested mods, but it’s your bike and opinions are like bum holes as they say.  Not sure how you will quantify your air scoop experiments success but report back. 

Pete 86 wrote: I think that exhaust pipe venturi on the dukes have something to do with the crazy tourqe very low down that the mille dosent have.

I'm not saying it will make it like a modern Ducati but if you don't have a modded collector, you should get one. You will be stunned at the improvement in the low to mid range especially as the hole in the torque curve completely disappears.

If i have venturi at the closest point to the head based on the cc transfered to the port and header combined then in theory it will speed up ex flow lowerdown on the ex stroke allowing the piston to travel to tdc faster on the ex stroke. Further away from the head it should have the same effect but higher up on the ex stroke and for less piston travel.

Or im going to waste a load of time and money trying

Err,well that's a very subjective question that only you can answer

Like you I love dabbling but after spending most of my life (or at least the last 54 years ) doing all sorts from porting 2 strokes to playing with Aprilias with the odd Honda 4 thrown in I've come to several conclusions

Firstly I still have two Apes,one track Mille and a Gen 2 Tuono so I'm not hating on the brand in any way,and while I may lose the T as I hardly ever ride these days the Mille is a keeper BUT

In your case I'm afraid you seem to be tying to start from a blank sheet as it were and disregarding all the work done over the lifetime of these bikes.

There is a well developed upgrade plan for these bikes which I would recommend you follow for best results. Primarily if you have a standard single can system the first thing you really MUST do is go 2-2 or if you want to stay 2-1 get a modded collector from Mark (Redratbike) on here.

This is the fundamental building block! And unless you're a competent welder yourself just get one from Mark,why try and reinvent the wheel?

Second would be airbox mods and swapping out the ECU chip to take advantage of all this.

After that if you still fancy throwing money down the drain then a B/B kit and modded heads are next.

So,back to that question which is personal to you.   

Edit:

  Just found this from a couple of years back      http://www.rsvr.net/gen-1-edwards-air-tubes_topic26268.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.rsvr.net/gen-1-edwards-air-tubes_topic26268.html

Think i had one too many Gins lastnight and got a bit carried away.

I put it out there and got a fantastic response which i am very happy with so thank you guys. 

I think ill stick with the known collector mod and a throttle ballance for now.👍

 

And for once I wasn't trying to stir,I'm actually impressed that as far as I can remember you're only the 3rd person who thought about the air path from the front and actually decided a course of action rather than slavishly following the herd.

As for how useful it is, haven't a clue but it's staying on my bike

I'm more than ever convinced suspension upgrades and rider training are the way to faster times though once the collector/airbox/chip route's been done.

Lots of others disagree though which is fine

On the other hand quite a few have voted with their feet and wallets and now frequent Kwak,KTM and Honda forums instead

 

Ill have a think about what else i might do haha.

And let you all know

Still here Mr G Sir 

How the devil are you Scott?

Still bikeless and playing with big turbo's?

I recently gravitated back here due to boredom and frustration due to not being able to go out,I dread to think what'll happen if the Broadband goes down while under house arrest

Pm'd you :-)