Rattle rattle, EFI oil light HELP !
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Category: RSV / RSVR / FACTORY
Forum Name: Technical Chat
Forum Description: Any technical problems or useful advise for other owners, remember this is just advice posted here, if you make something go BANG in a big way don't take anyone to court about it.
URL: http://www.rsvr.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=14045
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Topic: Rattle rattle, EFI oil light HELP !
Posted By: 6VOLT
Subject: Rattle rattle, EFI oil light HELP !
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 17:46
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Hi all, I was out for a ride today with some friends and have come a cropper with the bike. It was a spirited ride but as we were on the slow down into a village I noticed that my EFI light was on as was the oil can symbol. when I came to a stand still I noticed that the bike sounded like crap, rattling etc. It almost sounds like a cam chain tensioner kind of sound. Whilst riding I noticed no drop in performance and noting that sounded out of the ordinary, but to be on the safe side I got it picked up in a van. It's an 06RSVR with only 4,700 miles. Anything going drastically wrong at this mileage is a right sod! Would the hydraulic cam chain tensioner cause this kind of problem and EFI/oil display? My oil is topped right up and there are no leaks. Thanks Dan |
Replies:
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 18:21
The oil light and efi light are separate fault warnings. Are you sure it was not oil and triangle or efi and triangle ? The oil light means low oil pressure which would not be good at all unless the pressure switch is goosed which is poss. A tensioner issue would not drop overall pressure nor throw a code. They do sound like a bag of nails when they misfire. Does the batt voltage look ok still, at full power ? |
6VOLT wrote:Posted By: joe 90
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 18:23
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You probably know that you you check the oil level when the engines hot . See if the rattle is still there when the engine is cold. ------------- www.spoonztuning.co.uk I Luv Ducati's Discount Ducati breakdown cover call joe 0800 998 999 |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 19:34
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Hi guys, it was certainly the red triangle with the efi light and oil pressure symbol.....so basically low oil pressure.. Any common areas for me to start looking at or is it just a case of 'dive in and start stripping it'.
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Posted By: redratbike
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 20:26
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Pressure switch that's a 15 quid part ...but then you wouldn't have a rattle if it speaks only that. Oil pressure relief valve or oil pump issues??? Drop the oil to see if there's any metallic particles??? -------------  |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 21:05
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If the problem is genuine low pressure it's either pump (relief valve is part of the pump) or the crank shell bearings. The latter will show copper in the oil. The bike will enter limp mode when the oil press is low and that makes the bike like a misfiring kangaroo above 3k. Was it doing it at idle or just when revving ? I would be tempted to drop the oil and if it shows no bad signs, refill and run the motor up again to idle briefly and see if you can isolate the noise to an area (top of motor or bottom etc) assuming it is still there. If it's just the pressure switch the bike should sound normal at idle. You could also check for error codes on the dash when you run it up (hold in lap button whilst keying on and keep held for about 20 secs). A pressure switch failure should show as code 48. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 21:28
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Thanks guys,
I noticed the warning just as i was entering a village so i was coming down the rev range.
When i re started it the noise was at idle and increased with the revs.
I'm guessing it will be something more sinister than the pump as surely a pump wouldnt cause a rattle/tapping noise?
I'll take your advice and 1st drop the oil to check for anything untoward.
I did take the panel off whilst the bike was still hot but turned off and my oil tank was full, would that be correct or indicate a problem at all?
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Posted By: joe 90
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 21:45
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If you have warning lights the ecu is finding something , unlikly the engine is blown.mine had no warning lights with the knocking rattling noise , lap+ turning engine over can sometimes pickup codes.
------------- www.spoonztuning.co.uk I Luv Ducati's Discount Ducati breakdown cover call joe 0800 998 999 |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2014 at 21:49
The pressure relief valve is in the pump. If it sticks open the oil pressure will not build as the pump is fighting against it. Bit like trying to pump up an inner tube with a hole in it. The moment you loose pressure the cam tensioners will slacken etc hence the noise. The hope if it was the pump is that you caught it early enough. It's not common to have pump issues but I wouldn't write it off as an option. Shell bearings usually are more of a knock when they go but there is nearly always copper in the oil so see what you find. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 07:27
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Any advice on how I can access this pressure relief valve guys?
Also if the pressure switch was to turn faulty, would this in turn cause the oil pressure loss? Ie. the engine/ecu not knowing what to do do to the faulty sensor, or is it purely mechanical?
Cheers
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Posted By: Skullface
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 08:32
| No idea if its relevant here, but some guys with 06 onwards models change the oil filter housing for the early 'short filter cap' as the early short filter has a bypass valve in it, this is only deemed an issue on the later 06-09 engines. |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 09:05
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The relief valve is in the oil pump so it would have to come out to check. (It sits behind the clutch basket). The pressure switch is just a sensor, has no effect on actual pressure.
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Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 22:29
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Right guys, little update. I tried holding the lap button on start up but got no error codes..nothing happened. I manned up and decided to start the bike. it make the rattle noise for about 4/5 seconds and disappeared.. as if maybe the tensioners and oil pressure was beck to normal and the cam chains were back under tension.... Now I'm going to change the oil tomorrow regardless... but do you thing its worth striping the clutch out to have a poke at that relief valve or take it for a run and if all is good leave it alone?
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Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 22:51
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If it were me I would drop the oil first just to be sure there is nothing sinister. If it all looks good go for a gentle ride and see what happens. Re the error codes you have to hold the lap button at power on for 20 sec before starting. Then start once the code window appears. If the efi light etc has gone there will be no active codes so don't expect anything unless the fault does comes back. It would have to go on a diag machine to see the stored codes. Would be interesting to know what codes if any are stored there. Nothing worse than not knowing and wondering if it will bite again. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 01:11
| Thanks..last question. If I do go for the pump, can I get to it by removing the round clutch cover and all of the clutch components or do I need to remove the whole side casing and water pump? |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 09:34
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The side casing has to come off along with the basket and drive gears for the pumps (which run off the clutch). The oil pump cover is to the bottom right of the basket area but you don't have proper access unless the basket comes off.
It is always poss that something blocked an oilway and forced the relief vavle open as the oil over pressured. Hence why it would be good to drop the oil. Liquid gasket is a fav for doing things like that if there is excess on joints that breaks off over time. If it's had a new sprag or stator in it's life that is a possibility. There is a major oilway from the flywheel area to the pump as the stator is oil cooled. If you find something in the oil like silicone then that may be the guilty party. It might be worth checking the gauze filter on the tank also. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 10:59
| Dude, your a proper text book ! Thanks |
Posted By: redratbike
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 12:35
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he is a font of knowledge for sure ,think he has aprilia manuals as bedtime reading ------------- |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 20:56
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Lol. Well I had a play and changed the oil... I have managed to get a code p20. Which I believe to be a case of the bike saying wtf! Lol..I have checked most of the connectors but I think its going to be the oil pressure sensor perhaps... reason I say that is I only have the EFI and pressure warning light on idle. When I rev it it goes away. |
Posted By: kevin_whittaker
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 21:05
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Hmm, could be.... Or it could be the bigend bearings that are worn out...  Sorry to be the one to come out with it.  ------------- www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 21:08
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Would be nice if it's just the press switch but cheap enough to find out. P error codes are fault codes not monitored by the ecu. The general view is they are associated with sensor voltage anomalies and I have heard of p20 and p99 being associated with the pressure switch before. The failing switch (if it is that) may be spiking the CAN Bus or something. The noisy motor might have been heat related if you caned it. If it's a light oil in there the pressure will drop slightly when it gets really hot and thins. You may never know for sure if the switch fixes the dash error. Fingers crossed and bang a new switch in there. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 21:14
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Ill be calling AP tomorrow for a switch. I was given 10/40 fully synthetic today by my local. I mentioned the 15/50 but was told the 10/40 would be ok. Ideas? |
Posted By: Spoonz
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 21:16
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Yeah 10/40 is fine generally but fully synth may be a prob for the clutch if it was on semi before. Time will tell |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 21:32
| Im not sure what it was on. Ill stick with this for a bit and hope I dont get any slippage . |
Posted By: joe 90
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2014 at 22:07
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I did say the ecu was finding something the warning triangle !!you don't get f**k all warning lights or codes if the engine blown! just knocking. ------------- www.spoonztuning.co.uk I Luv Ducati's Discount Ducati breakdown cover call joe 0800 998 999 |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2014 at 00:32
| Well it isnt knocking.. I have taken it to dwr in aylesbury and im told it sounds fine... ill change the sensor and go from there. |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 20:05
| Well folks. I have fitted a new oil pressure switch, dumped the oil which was clean and replaced it with new stuff and filter. My efi warning has gone away.... so thats good and the bike is running sweet... wish I knew what caused tbe hiccup. Short of pulling it to pieces I wont know. . Thanks for all of the advice. |
Posted By: redratbike
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 20:26
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Posted By: pjroth72
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 21:05
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Great stuff pal glad ya sorted ;) ------------- www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
Posted By: kevin_whittaker
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 21:17
Great news mate, well done... I bet that's a relief.  ------------- www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
Posted By: pjroth72
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 21:30
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oh dear you will be in spoons debt for the rest of ya life lol ------------- www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
Posted By: 6VOLT
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 22:34
| A debt worth while.... I would be seriously gutted if it died. |
Posted By: pjroth72
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 22:43
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your in the right place pal they are a great set of peeps ------------- www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
Posted By: tapmyhed
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 23:01
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This place is a way of life!!! Love it!!! ------------- Factory 04 Big Bore Whore |