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Intermittent start.
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Stevex View Drop Down
Moto GP Alien
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    Posted: 19 Jun 2024 at 18:47
Couldnt start the bike today and was just about to give up when it fired up.
I'd pushed the starter button numerous times and could here the starter relay click and the fuel pump prime but nothing from the starter motor.
Got home, disconnected the starter relay connector and checked I was getting voltage when the starter button was pressed, worked every time.
Next took the kill / starter switch gear apart to check contact, again, as far as I could see, no problems.
Then disconnected the starter motor, checked for corrosion and used the multimeter to check I was getting battery voltage at the motor when the button was pressed.
My starter relay is a Hitachi MS5D-191, it was uprated by the previous owner along with the starter motor power cables as far as I remember,  they look beefy enough.
Has anyone had one of these go bad? 
I've not been able to reproduce the problem this evening, so I'll see what happens tomorrow.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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Points: 16331 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2024 at 07:02
check the earth straps from the engine to the frame as well as that completes the circuit 

remove clean refit 


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legend88 View Drop Down
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2024 at 14:33
Hi Steve,
Yes I've had one of of the official upgraded solenoids go bad - See my thread here:
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Moto GP Alien
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Points: 1481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2024 at 14:58
Thanks Ray.
Mark, where are the attachments for that earth cable?
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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legend88 View Drop Down
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2024 at 15:16
The engine earth is attached to the inside of the right hand frame rail. It can be a bugger to get to, mine was rock solid on the frame and the engine attachment when I was doing my checking.
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may be easier to pull the tank as it’s right there in the inside of the frame 

trace the black lead from the solenoid back to the frame then there is another that goes from here to the rear cylinder 

to get at it on a gen1 pull the water bottle out the way 


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Thumbs Up
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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Although the Aprilia's away for the winter I decided to run all the bikes today as the temperature was decent. 
After behaving itself after I started this thread, the gremlins struck again with the same symptom. 
Fuel pump relay was clicking every time as was the starter solenoid. Also, with the start button pressed, even with no starter motor rotation, I could hear the fuel pump running.
I whipped off the seat and did a voltage check at the starter solenoid output cable to the starter. On the occasions when the starter didn't turn over I got nothing, then I got battery voltage at the cable and the bike turned over. 
So all though the solenoid is making every time, there must be a dodgy contact in there. It's an Hitachi solenoid but I guess nothing lasts forever. 
Nice to get to the bottom of it before bike season starts again though.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2025 at 11:05
Sounds like you had exactly the same issue as me. I spent ages trying to find the cause as I just assumed that if I could hear the solenoid switching then it would be OK. NEVER assume!  Ermm
I intended to cut mine open to find out what was going on but never did. At least you are sorted for the new riding season
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Points: 1481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2025 at 12:55
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Sounds like you had exactly the same issue as me. I spent ages trying to find the cause as I just assumed that if I could hear the solenoid switching then it would be OK. NEVER assume!  Ermm
I intended to cut mine open to find out what was going on but never did. At least you are sorted for the new riding season


LOL, yep, there was a saying in the Air Force, assume makes an ass out of u and me.
I'm going to cut mine open and take a look.
Ray, I take it you replaced the solenoid with the one Griff sells. 
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2025 at 14:54
Yes Steve I did, however the one that failed was also an upgraded one that came from Griff, although it was about seven years old give or take. Doesn't get used daily mind (Or even weekly last year).
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Points: 1481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2025 at 13:54
New solenoid fitted. Had a look inside the old one and the contact areas were spotless, I can only assume the solenoid had started to get weak.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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legend88 View Drop Down
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2025 at 09:45
God stuff, sorted for when the good weather returns.

Interesting that you couldn't see any fault in the old one. Did you do any testing on the wiring (Although given the symptoms, I'm not sure what you would test for?)
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I didn't do any testing as I had to basically destroy it to get a look at the contacts.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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legend88 View Drop Down
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Points: 6699 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2025 at 10:31
Originally posted by Stevex Stevex wrote:

I didn't do any testing as I had to basically destroy it to get a look at the contacts.

Yeah, that's what I expected I would need to do if I had pulled mine apart.
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https://rsvr.net/gen-2-rsvr-willinto-learn-mods-topic_topic29753&OB=DESC_page2.html#:~:text=GEN%202%20RSVR%20Willinto%20learn%20mods%20topic

Late on parade - I changed mine to 200A - following calculating the current at 120%.
Years of the big K then an Ape - one with twin Akras, AP air box mod, twin NRVs, 42t rear sprocket, great big 12V cables, 200A solenoid, 40A MOSFET r/r + headlight switch + stator cooling + PCIII map.
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