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Big Bore, the return. |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 09:40 |
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Griff, open up the emergency orange segment!
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 15:19 |
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Right then, another productive hour. 3 out of 4 cams set up...just the inlet on the front to do. The rear exhaust took some grinding to get in..just got to go steady with the dremmel. The other two were simply using the play already built in.
Could be good for a strip tomorrow, can't wait. |
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redratbike
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The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16331 |
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Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 17:44 |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 11:47 |
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Did better than I thought today, last bit of dremmelling hit the mark first time, all cams now in. I even split the engine apart again to look at the piston clearances.
A quick look shows all good, 2 inlet valves on the front look pretty close but no piston contact whatever. I'll put it down to a smidge of piston rock and gravity as the front is leant right over compared to the rear and I did the build without rings fitted. Squish clearances look bang on. Anyways, they are back in a box and I'll look at them proper and compare them to stock. If totally happy, they go off to camcoat with the exhausts for the full treatment Monday or Tuesday....2-3 week turn around. I'll get some pics up later of the pistons. |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 18:05 |
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Need some advice chaps. I did a quick measurement of the cutouts, it appears they are in by half a mill on the originals, which is .25 mm each. That's the outer edge of the curved bit, the bit that got hit on Beanos bike. The solder looks to be very thin, where I put them in before the first build. Looks about .25mm of a gap to the edge of each valve.
I think I'll need a bit machining off both pistons to be on the safe side but I don't want to use a dremmel!!! Anyone know a good machinist that can do this? |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 19:54 |
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Right then....fukkyfukkyfukky.
Pistons need recalibrating. Measured proper, insets are in 0.4mm too much and crown also needs 0.2mm off as well. Not pleased.....but f**k it, I'll crack on. |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 19:56 |
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Pictures tell a thousand fuks.
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 19:57 |
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At least my cams are ding dong spot on. I better crack 150 bhp after all this arse ache.....
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Johnboy
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Joined: 10 Apr 2013 Location: Wrexham Status: Offline Points: 4779 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 20:42 |
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LOL, f**k me we're all nursing semi's waiting fir a result!
You are a mechanical genius, crack on!!! |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 20:43 |
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Not sure I'm liking the semis.......but I'm trying!
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 20:43 |
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Not trying to like semis.......trying to get this finished....
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Johnboy
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Joined: 10 Apr 2013 Location: Wrexham Status: Offline Points: 4779 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 21:23 |
LOL, sorry , us blokes don't need distractions, good work so far, it's been fascinating what you've done, you've taught me a great deal. |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 23:59 |
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Cheers Johny, I started out knowing fukall! Step by small step I've learnt a whole lot of stuff and the learning keeps going.....milling a pair of pistons, who would a guessed? Big thanks to Griff for giving me some insider info on the other pistons from the same batch....and a few others on what to look for and how to look, solder....who would of guessed that???!!
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 00:02 |
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Not to mention all the special tools and brackets I've had to buy or make. Don't under estimate the time needed to do a good job if you have never done it before.
I stripped the engine down this afternoon....wait for it....10 mins flat, both heads and pistons off from fully torqued and can tested. Once you know...... |
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redratbike
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The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16331 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 08:00 |
ha ha
i'm sure you have read Micah's suggestions on minimum valve to piston clearance over on AF1?
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 10:05 |
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No not really.
I'm thinking it should be 1mm? I'm also thinking due to the higher piston face I'm going to need a thicker base gasket. I know I measured all this last night, but off the top of my head, the squish came in at about 0.8mm and according to more reading this would be better at about 1.15mm for the 102 bore. Could you point me to Micahs post on the valves? I think that whatever I do I need the pistons remachined, and if the coating I'm going to have done to them afterwards adds content to the face, then it really needs to be machined as well. Complications......this is a real woman of an engine....1 step forward, one kick in the nuts...... I never wanted to say this, but the time has come. Stay the hell away from Tash and his xtreme company. My bores should of been right, out of the box, as should the pistons......OK, I feel better now.
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NickyBoy1984
Moto GP Alien
Exhaust freak! Joined: 24 Dec 2011 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 10532 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 21:20 |
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Tap, are you going to the open day Mate ?
If you are, I wanna shake your hand and bow in the presence of someone who has the true patience of a saint Hehee! You've done bloody well Matey, can't wait to see your bike finally running and ripping up the roads! NickyBoy
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www.rsvr.net
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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redratbike
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 21:23 |
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Can't find the post
Pm Micah on af1 he will answer Amaurai mentioned 1mm radial clearance on the cutouts So many posts on af1 I have read the info somewhere spent an hour at work looking for the post Micah wrote. |
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fusebox
Admins Group
Aprilia performance boss bloke Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: the shop..again Status: Offline Points: 3083 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 21:33 |
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Tap 1mm radial clearence is the industry standard for a safe road engine !
And yes sir, you are a legend, you have the patience of a saint! |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 23:03 |
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Cheers fellas, sometimes lose the will to live on this project.
But....the engineer in me wants to know more and do more. I wish it was just building the engine, but no, once that is done I got to take the old one out, put this one in....then get my front forks sorted, change front disks, get it started, dynod.....and to really finish it off, a respray.... Anyways....thanks for the support and I really mean it, top forum top people..... Anyway, back on your heads. I'm seeing a machinist in the morning to get the pistons sorted....I'm not stopping! Had them in the dishwasher tonight to give them a bloody good clean too. :-) |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 02 Sep 2014 at 17:17 |
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How does this sound???
The machining of the insets may cost up to 400!!! Due to set up per piston per inset. What was suggested was to trim the valves back a bit. I'm not sure as I have a feeling the valve also serve to protect the seats.... What's the opinion on here? |
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redratbike
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Posted: 02 Sep 2014 at 19:26 |
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 02 Sep 2014 at 20:02 |
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That's what I think. I had a chat with a guy at work, he thinks he can do it or at least another guy who knows how to use a CNC machine...which the maintenance dept now has. I've given him the stock pistons to practice on! I'll know tomorrow if he can do it.
Flipping hiccups. |
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redratbike
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Posted: 02 Sep 2014 at 20:10 |
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Ha ha good call on the stock pistons
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T Davidsson
Moto3 racer
Joined: 02 Dec 2010 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 07:50 |
On my 1127cc(103mm bore) i have 1mm piston to head and that works great, raced tree summers and all the stuff looked good. |
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Diggs345
Premium Member Joined: 18 Dec 2013 Location: Lincs Status: Offline Points: 220 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 09:44 |
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Well I have some good news in part , my engine , cams and bores out cylinders / pistons should be with me late tomorrow night , bad news is it cost more than I was quoted and I need to source head gaskets , I'm thinking with the cp pistons there should be no need to machine them but I'll check anyway , I'll also make a arbour up to machine the slots in the cam wheels .
Tap , good to hear your making headway even if it's in slowtime , better to take your time than rush and be sorry . Chris |
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redratbike
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 09:58 |
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Diggs345
Premium Member Joined: 18 Dec 2013 Location: Lincs Status: Offline Points: 220 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:35 |
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No , I will do that as and when I have time .
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tapmyhed
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 1944 |
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Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 13:30 |
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I might have to wait a couple of weeks for the guys here to trim the pistons...which I don't mind. I can do the other jobs and get the old engine out too. Plenty to do so it won't hold he up really.
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steelman_2
Moto3 racer
Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Location: Turku, Finland Status: Offline Points: 84 |
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Posted: 25 Sep 2014 at 07:44 |
Thank God you've it !Do I've guts for a like 'survey' ? I'm still deraming of Rotax 1190 ( 1127-kit with 4 mm. stroke). At least I've three engines ! |
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