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big bore and reliabilty 1060vs1102 |
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geobarb 
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015 Location: greece Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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 Topic: big bore and reliabilty 1060vs1102Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 15:12 |
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Hi everybody,recently i had thoughts for following the big bore route.Aren't we all??
  My bike will never be sold,and i think that with extra 15 hp will touch the excellence in every conceivable sector.I believe that we all have that sensation I searched everywhere for information about the reliability of the 1060 and the 1102,and i got mixed opinions.My bike does 8-10.000 km per year,touring and track days,and i would want a solution with,as close to stock reliability Any input from future and present owners of big bore motors will be very helpful. I call for all Aprilia experts like griff,spoonz and all others,to share their knowledge with us. Thanks in advance
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redratbike
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 15:38 |
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I think a lot of it is to do with the engine builder and their knowledge of rotax engine, and matched components.
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Fugly
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 754 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 16:12 |
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Hi Geobarb,
OK here is my experience. Like you, I love my Tuono but felt it needed a little more edgy character so went to the temple of AP and talked to Griff explaining reliability was key and he advised that 1060 was the way to go and the engine would require no "special" attention so that is the way mine went. From here I went from excitement of a 4 year old at Christmas to a nervous wreak. When Lewis stripped the motor he found the front cyclinder camchain guide was missing (WTF) but assured me that no harm had come to the motor. (There is a video on the AP website of my motor). I bought the bike from a member of this forum who had it fully serviced and it appears that rather than battle with the timing chain tensioner the mechanic (aka twat) removed the guide to get some slack in the timing chain to get the cams out! Since buying the bike I had done a Nurburgring trip and a trackday so I was horrified at what could of happened but thankfully didn't. Anyway, the motor was built and off to the dyno it went where it promptly shat itself, this time the rear cylinder had dropped a valve seat. Nothing to do with the build and may have happened irrespective of the build, you can imagine that now I am really not happy. It wasn't AP's fault it wasn't my fault but my new 1060 motor was now a boat anchor. Griff sorted me a motor and another build was started, he also sorted me out in terms of easing my burden of his team building two motors. Top man. Anyway long and short of it is that I have now done about 4K miles on my 1060 and love it beyond compare, my sons RSV4R and a Mates Panigale only humiliate me well north of a ton and it's just bonkers to ride. I've taken it to the Nurburgring, Spa, Rockingham and Silverstone since the build as well as some good road runs. It's been 100% reliable, doesn't use oil, runs at normal temperatures and is simply addictive. If you're going big bore go to Griff - Simple
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Full Arrows system, 1060 Big Bore, PC5 and Evo Airbox. Bring on the big grin!
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Fitz
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Joined: 23 Apr 2010 Location: Harrogate Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 16:28 |
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Problem is Fugly looks like Geobarb lives in Greece, so think Griff would be out the question
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geobarb
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015 Location: greece Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 17:17 |
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Hi fugly,thanks for sharing your experiance.
The problems you had,if it is from the build,it is what im afraiid the most. In my case living in a hotter climate than you,i must be more skeptical for the engine build. Amauri from the af1 forum,does not build 1060 anymore,and he thinks the 1102 with the steel liners is more reliable.On the other hand af1 guys sell only the 1060,and not the 1102 any more after they had problems with head crackings if i remember correctly.I dont know what to believe  Is there anyone with a high mileage big bore motor to enlighten us
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426hemi
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owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5795 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 17:58 |
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Have 1103 with nikasil lining and have done a fair few thousand miles now and it still puts out the same power on the dyno, little more actually but that's down to modded airbox etc. Frank wratthal's built it and it's never missed a beat yet in 6 years.
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geobarb
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 18:14 |
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Hi hemi,your 1103 with nicasil,is considered more fragile than the ones with steel liners.
What is the case with nicasil?Is it reliable with 1060 and not with the 1103?Wears faster? A 1060 with steel liners will be the ticket,or will not perform correctly?
How many miles have on the motor? |
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426hemi
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owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5795 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 18:32 |
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As others have said it mainly comes down to the builder, it's done about 10,000m since it was built by wratthal's engine builder Ian park. The original barrels are nikasil coated and there are bikes that have done upto 70,000m with no problem.
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geobarb
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 18:34 |
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70.000 with big bore?
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426hemi
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owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5795 |
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Posted: 27 Sep 2016 at 18:36 |
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No original but imagine how much stick they have had at that mileage with cold starts etc and they are still ok.
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nitroargi
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Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Location: Athens-Greece Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 07:08 |
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Hey Geo
Like everyone here said it is mainly down to the builder of the motor...there is always a possibility that things may go south with every tuning that you do to the motor but if the engine is good and the job is done properly you have nothing to worry about. To me no matter if you go the 1060 route (Bill here in Greece has one in a Caponord) or choose the 1100 route the end result will be the same in terms of fun!! You worry too much anyway!! |
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redratbike
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 08:57 |
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PaulW
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 09:55 |
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My 1060 motor has covered over 5k of hard track miles, everything from -2 to +40 degrees at the various circuits, and never missed a beat. Still as strong now as when it was fitted.
HTH
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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redratbike
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 10:42 |
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PaulW
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 10:53 |
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Don at Southern Cross Mark.
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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Garin
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A Big Bore Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Launcestershire Status: Offline Points: 808 |
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 11:10 |
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My 1060 is coming up to 9000 miles and has just done its third tour of Spain
Still going very well with 39000 miles on the clock |
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 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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geobarb
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 14:47 |
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Hi to all.Althought i searched like maniac,i didnt find any testimony for a big bore motor running with real high mileage above 15-20000 km.This maybe have to do with the fact that most of those motors are track duty and occasionally driving bikes.
Dont get me wrong,i love my bike,and with the fact i will never sell her, i dont want to spend a serius amount of money for a period of 2 years time only(around 15000km mileage with my pace). If the motor needs rebuild every 2 years i'm doomed. Can anyone tell me why griff and af1 provide only 1060 kits and not 1102? Is there any reliability reasons for that?Some say 1102 is more reliable because of the steel liners |
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Fugly
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 15:14 |
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And others say the the liners are too thin at 1102 and there is a risk to longevity.
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Full Arrows system, 1060 Big Bore, PC5 and Evo Airbox. Bring on the big grin!
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PaulW
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 15:22 |
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Dude, I'd say 5000 of my track miles is harder on a motor that 20000 road ones. I'm not overly mechanically sympathetic......
I'd guess the 1100 kit would be quite a bit more expensive than the 1060, and the small power gain probably doesn't justify the additional cost?
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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Andys Thumper
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Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Location: West Sussex Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 15:36 |
No Sh1t
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geobarb
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 17:15 |
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So,Can anyone tell me why griff and af1 provide only 1060 kits and not 1102?
Why steel liners are considered more reliable,and nikasil brittle?
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Shyted
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 17:42 |
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Hello Geo.
First off i haven't run either. What i can say is there are lot's of things to consider. I have spoken to variouse people on here and spoke to Griff who runs Aprilia performance. Me personaly , i'd go 1060. Here's my reasons. 1.Crank case pressure doesn't become excessive. 2.I don't know a single sole whos had a 1060 fail. 3.How much power do you want and why? 4.How much will the 1060,Evo air box,PC v and auto tune give you in comparrison to the1102 and nothing else. 5.What other ares could i improve to get the motor so reliability isn't an issue. 6.How much bang for buck do i get ? 7.I would rather have 20 reliable bhp than 30 unreliable. My final decission came when i talked to Griff . Hemi is the only person i know who runs anything else sucessfuly. The people who built his engine have vast experience with the Rotax twin and engine tuning. You pays your money and makes your choice after that. Best regards Shyted. |
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I used to be uncertain , but now i'm not sure anymore
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geobarb
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 18:04 |
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Hi shyted,i dont think that there is major difference in cost between 1060 and 1102.
That is because you need to replate the cylinder with nicasil,and if you add that cost,you will be very close to 1102. You said that you never saw an 1060 faill,did you saw an 1102 fail? The crank case pressure is a logical argument.
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PaulW
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 18:27 |
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I thought 1060 was just an over bore of the standard liners and the 1102 needed new liners, hence my more expensive comment? May well be wrong as I bought my barrels already sorted
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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redratbike
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Posted: 28 Sep 2016 at 20:10 |
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Quite a few failed 1060's have been posted on af1
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geobarb
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Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 15:57 |
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Hi red,do you remember what was the cause of the failures?
The big bore motors losing power faster than a standard engine?
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426hemi
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owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5795 |
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Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 16:10 |
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I do know numerous failures have been through bad bore machining by the out sourced engineering shops, the bores have basically been oval.
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redratbike
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Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 16:27 |
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sounds about right
try searching af1
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geobarb
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Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 16:39 |
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what about the subject of losing power quicker?Is it true?
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geobarb
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Posted: 29 Sep 2016 at 16:47 |
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Searching on the net and af1 especially,have become every day habit for me
 Put me out of my misery!!!
  .Just dont tell me to let it go! |
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nitroargi wrote: