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Think this will work ?

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Mr Miller View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 19:46
If you find us in a hedge check the bike first please .. I`m free on the NHS...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 20:30
Been the Dutch way for many years and it works but they actually have proper useable cycle lanes unlike the pathetic excuses for lanes here that are fragmented and pointless in most cases, also 50cc scooters are allowed on them so that gets them off the road too. Can't see it making it safer here. I cycle to work every day and I've lost count of the close calls . It's a 10 minute commute so I choose it over getting the 675 warmed up or sitting in traffic in the van but I often question if it's worth it due to safety concerns. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 20:49
i cycled into London every day for 3 years 35 mile round trip

i took my life in my own hands every day and the amount of bruised knuckles i got punching cars was unreal , having your leg brushed by a car at 5:30 in the morning up the old kent road as he undertakes the slower cars up the bus lane wakes you up !!!! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimGreezy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 02:49
i think pushbikes should pay road tax and insurance, i mean lets face it, a lot of the lycra boys can get upto speed faster than a 50cc moped
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 04:44
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

i cycled into London every day for 3 years 35 mile round trip

i took my life in my own hands every day and the amount of bruised knuckles i got punching cars was unreal , having your leg brushed by a car at 5:30 in the morning up the old kent road as he undertakes the slower cars up the bus lane wakes you up !!!! 
Hi Mark, you are braver than me, I bought that XC mtb and I took it to my mate to make it tubeless and get a new gear cluster on it, after he done that, the bike was new it just came with a bent gear cluster, maybe it was damaged in transit. 
When it was all done, we ride about 3 miles to the forest and I hated it, I never take it on the road, only in the forest i and felt safe .
You have my upmost sympathy, at least where we were we were rural. I don't know about the bikes being taxed and insured but these are the electric scooter are a menace.
I don't agree with five people abreast when you have twenty of them, but after that cycle ride i do feel how dangerous it is. 
That must have been a cycle club going up a hill with double white lines, i took a chance and took the lot, probably out of fustration. I know it was wrong but they could hear that bike half way up that hill and could have thinned out to let me by. 
I do treat bikes in a different way though now alway give them a loads of room. I guess when you cycle on the road or use one you understand the vulnerability it makes you feel differently. 
That was wrong what I fdone up that hill but at the same time, i will thought it was arrogance when they could have let me by, as soon as they hit a little straight, I was past them so quick it was ridiculous, I don't they liked the noise either 😂. 
Forest for me Mark, get a mtb as you have some nice countryside there 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 10:15
I think that whilst the new rules might seem to offer sensible protection in towns as effectively they've adopted the "if there's an accident it's the larger vehicles responsibility" approach, this may force some car drivers to be more thoughtful before undertaking and hitting cyclists in busy town commutes for example. The reality though is it'll make little difference to driving standards.  The mobile phone laws haven't worked so layering more responsibility on car drivers when we're in a period of possibly the lowest driving standards ever, is likely to come to nothing.

 However, it falls flat on its face and flies in the face of common sense when applied to rural areas. For example, coming round a bend in a car or motorbike, you're expected to travel at a speed where you can stop in the available space visible ahead but what you may not expect is to come around a corner and find several lycra clad sunny day cyclists go from single file to then one swerving out and riding two abreast around a blind bend.  This is exactly where I found myself a few days ago in the car.  Luckily I avoided colliding with the cyclists but it was clear they'd left their road sense, manners and brains behind when they went out.  They do the most stupid, dangerous and selfish things in groups on roads near to us.  The single riders and generally speaking MTB riders seem to be a lot more careful and considerate for some reason, but get two or more road riders together and their consideration for other road users seems to go out of the window.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 11:47
Originally posted by JimGreezy JimGreezy wrote:

i think pushbikes should pay road tax and insurance, i mean lets face it, a lot of the lycra boys can get upto speed faster than a 50cc moped

Any rider that’s in a club is insured through the bcf and you would be surprised how many non club riders are insured.  I insured my mtb when I did a ride across Spain a while back and the third party element is just £5 per annum for something like £3 mill cover.  I’ve kept it going as it was so cheap. Anyone that can afford a decent bike can afford to insure it. 

Unfortunately cyclists are just like motorcyclists and car drivers in that some are arrogant, dangerous or just idiots. You can’t legislate for stupid. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 12:29
There are some knobs about in all walks LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 12:32
Agreed Spoonz but it's not going to be a mandatory requirement and in our neck of the woods, the group cyclists are a right danger on narrow and twisty country roads.  It's like anything else where you get mixes of uses from horses, bikes and cars all competing for space.  The reality is that there seem to be more cyclists about which I guess is a good thing....I just wish more of them behaved with common sense and decency instead of an "it's my right to be here and we'll ride how we want sod everyone else" arrogance.  it has to work both ways in order to effect social change for the better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 12:59
Sounds like common sense to me. Trouble is, how many people actually know and follow the highway code? Definitely not many when it comes to understanding non-car road users I don't think.

I live in the country and often come across cyclists. Sometimes they're 2 wide taking up the whole lane. Sometimes there's a good reason like protecting themselves from overtakes where it's not safe to do so. Other times they're just having a chat. But cyclists and horses in my lane I can deal with. What I don't like so much is coming round a blind corner to find an oncoming car in my lane who's overtaking a cyclist. Seriously, this is the most common and most dangerous thing I come across and puts me off wanting to ride my Mille on the road. I don't blame the cyclist in that situation any more than I would a horse rider. It's the car who should be aware of their surroundings and understand that blind corners are the wrong time to be in the wrong lane. 

I've also done some cycle commuting too as my commute (when I wasn't remote working every day) was only about 10 minutes in the car or 10 minutes on the bicycle. You do come across your fair share of arseholes in cars who just want to get past a bicycle at all costs. There's a 20mph stretch that at rush hour is often barely moving in my direction but clear on the other side. If I just carefully ride down the inside of the road as you would on a motorbike I've had cars pull across so they're sat on the oncoming lane a good couple feet. For no other reason than not liking being passed by a bicycle. Or then when it opens up to 40mph the people who accelerate by passing as close as possible from some power trip or something. I'm glad these days I don't have to bother. 

Us Brits are a very passive aggressive bunch and putting aluminium and glass bubbles around ourselves just brings out the worst of us. I think in an ideal world we'd just get rid of cars altogether from towns. Use them just for travelling on the open road. All you need in towns and residential areas are your feet, some kind of pedal vehicle or some electric buggy of some sort. There would be so much less aggro if we didn't spend time sat in queues just because we all need a 30 foot area of space around each of us. Plus there would be more aggro if you just saw people and said hi, rather than everyone being isolated in their own little bubbles. 

Oof wasn't expecting to start ranting like that, sorry.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 13:07
Yes, absolutely.  I've lost count of the times car drivers for some suicidal reason overtake on bends to get past a cyclist and almost cause a head-on.  Missed one by inches when on my GSA a few months ago who did that.  Thought my chips were up.  Unfortunately for bike riders, many rural roads in between towns and villages are like this now so you do have to pick your roads and times if you want to go for a blast or ride to more rural settings on more open roads.

Traffic in towns is a fact of life.  We live on a very densely populated island now, the most densely populated area in Europe (we've now overtaken Denmark for that accolade) and people still live outside of towns and have to commute in so banning cars won't happen or if it does, more businesses will simply move to the outskirts, shifting the problem there.  I am grateful and happy to be working from home these days running my own business but commuted for donkeys years on the bike up to 80 miles/day.  I don't miss those journeys.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 14:01
I’m not a road cyclist but I know a few and group riding is a difficult one to get around. If 20 riders are single file it means an overtaking car has to have space to overtake a train about 100 yds long. If they ride 2 abreast it’s halved so more potential for overtaking in theory.  

The problem comes when the road is possibly wide enough for the cars to pass even with oncoming traffic if the cyclists are single file. How wide is wide enough is a judgement call. Being passed with a foot to spare at 60 mph is bloody scary as well as dangerous. So riders often go 2 abreast on roads they consider marginal so the option is taken away from the car driver. 
The contentious bit is when one thinks the road is wide enough and the other not or one party is just being an ass. 

As with all road use it requires common sense all around and we all know that doesn’t happen. Are the riders 2/3 abreast because they nearly just got wiped out by a dick head who nearly killed them or because they are being t**sers.  My beef with cyclists as a cyclist is when they choose to ride the busiest roads at the busiest times in large groups and then wonder why drivers get frustrated. Non of it is rocket science.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 15:34
Agreed.  Big groups are best 2 abreast in groups of 4 to 6 with a decent gap between groups, enough for a car to overtake and get in safely.  Even large groups can be passed in 3 or 4 hops this way, but you seldom see them riding like that here.  Usually groups of 10 to 20 all in a line with no gaps which is bad practice and inevitably leads to driver frustration.  As you say (and as a former road cyclist) all it takes on both sides of the coin is a little common sense and a little tolerance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 17:33
Originally posted by Vee60 Vee60 wrote:

Agreed.  Big groups are best 2 abreast in groups of 4 to 6 with a decent gap between groups, enough for a car to overtake and get in safely.

Exactly, a big group of cyclists is just like a convoy of, say, army vehicles (Although slower) which always leave gaps for people to overtake into.

The bottom line is our rural roads just aren't suitable for cars and cyclists to share as you inevitably get a mile long queue of cars traveling at 10mph unable to pass a lone cyclist due to oncoming traffic. And when they reach an incline that drops the traffic queue to just about stationary. It just doesn't work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimGreezy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 20:47
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Originally posted by Vee60 Vee60 wrote:

Agreed.  Big groups are best 2 abreast in groups of 4 to 6 with a decent gap between groups, enough for a car to overtake and get in safely.

Exactly, a big group of cyclists is just like a convoy of, say, army vehicles (Although slower) which always leave gaps for people to overtake into.

The bottom line is our rural roads just aren't suitable for cars and cyclists to share as you inevitably get a mile long queue of cars traveling at 10mph unable to pass a lone cyclist due to oncoming traffic. And when they reach an incline that drops the traffic queue to just about stationary. It just doesn't work.


so what your saying is f**k pushbikes off then? or limit the times they can be used in rural areas?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 20:51
No.  What I'm saying is that both groups of road users need to learn common sense and tolerance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 21:20
Originally posted by JimGreezy JimGreezy wrote:

so what your saying is f**k pushbikes off then? or limit the times they can be used in rural areas?

I don't think I said that, did I?  Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 21:58
Not the way I read it Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimGreezy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 01:51
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Originally posted by JimGreezy JimGreezy wrote:

so what your saying is f**k pushbikes off then? or limit the times they can be used in rural areas?

I don't think I said that, did I?  Confused

when you said rural roads arnt suitable for both cars and pushbikes, thought you was getting at maybe morning traffic times, f**k the pushbikes off. you said it doesn't work as in sitting in a que of traffic because of one bike.

what would your suggestion be to that situation you described mate?

im sticking with f**king them off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 09:51
Individuals do cycle to work, and no harm to them.  Most clubs ride weekends but they also do timetrials during weekdays and often ride in the evenings.  I wish I could fine it, but I had dashcam footage of me passing (and giving a wide berth) to a group of 25 or so riders all bunched up whom I had been stuck behind for ages.  I was in a large suv with the family at the time.  On a downhill stretch where there was a half mile straight, I pulled out to the opposite side of the road allowing a good 4 feet or more clearance to the group and overtook rapidly to reduce risk of being on opposite carriageway when one of them pulled right out and crossed the carriageway to block me, swearing at me, almost screaming at me as I went past.  He left it so late and was so deliberate I must have been 10ft from him so had no option but to swerve almost into the verge on the other side and missed him by a foot or two.  Needless to say, I slowed and gave him the verbal bollocking he deserved, prat.  I also told the club they were being reported to the police for obstruction and dangerous riding.  Nothing came of it.

It's these instances which can give all bicyclists a band name and why its important to be on your guard.  Horses and cyclists are both equally unpredictable and should be always treated as high risk, to themselves and other road users.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 09:59
The biggest problem, and this extends far beyond road use, is that we seem to have got ourselves into a situation where a lot pf people know their rights but ignore their responsibilities. Giving pedestrians right of way over cars is fine if everyone plays their part, but you already see people crossing the road so engrossed in their phones that they have no idea what's going on around them.

'It was my right of way' will look pretty stupid on a gravestone.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 10:12
Nail on head.  I sound like an old git when I say this, but the younger generation today are especially guilty of this.  Mums pushing prams on the phone walking across junctions without looking, runners and walkers doing the same etc.  The new laws recognise that accidents in built up areas especially are on the increase so have basically suggested that its always the larger vehicles responsibility to avoid an accident no-matter the circumstances.  It's been this way on the continent for years.  I remember working in Bangkok where our work driver was jailed because a scooter rider pulled out in front of him, when it was his right of way and the rider was critically injured.  The driver did nothing wrong and couldn't have avoided hitting the scooter which simply rode out from a side street straight into our 4x4.  Had it been a pedestrian, the end result would have been the same.  It's recognised now that you can't legislate for (or against) idiots, so it has become the responsibility of the driver, rightly or wrongly, to give way even where they have the right of way, because idiots being hurt by their actions can't be avoided unless someone takes responsibility.  The price we pay for living in  such over crowded spaces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 10:33
The price we pay for driving big heavy vehicles in places where others get by fine on their own two feet or two wheels. I like driving, but then I also respect that it's a privilege and comes with responsibilities. Young mums pushing prams on the phone and not looking where they're going have a very low chance of killing people. But young mums driving Range Rovers 30mph through 20mph zones rushing little Timmy to school are almost guaranteed to kill or maim someone if either they or another road user makes a mistake. 

It's only the same thing HGV drivers have to put up with isn't it. They have to dodge cars driving recklessly because they are responsible for the larger vehicle. The changes make sense and to be honest I thought it was just a clarification of what has always been there. I remember from studying Civil Engineering that in street design you favour pedestrians first, then cyclists and horses, then public transport and goods vehicles and private cars last. Then on the highways we put goods vehicles first. We literally don't even consider cars when speccing out highways, only the amount of standard axles (HGVs) that will pass in the design life. But somehow (marketing? lobbying? I don't know) we all think cars are the king of the road. They're really not. For whichever type of road you can think of. 

It's a privilege to be out there driving cars and bikes on the road. We're either sharing a space designed for lorries or we're sharing a space designed for non-motored vehicles. So long as everyone shows respect it works. But when we're talking f**king off cyclists or whatever you might as well just say HGVs only and then in town pedestrians only. Can't be exclusive without also excluding yourself. Everyone or no one really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 10:42
Yes, I did civil engineering too and we were taught something similar.  Points being discussed though were not the relative principles involved but the attitudes of some road users.  No one I think was suggesting cars first but were suggesting that groups of cyclists, drivers on phones and pedestrians acting without a care in the world are all examples of inappropriate behaviour, shirking responsibility.  The do have to take as much responsibility for their actions as do car drivers otherwise there's a high risk of serious consequences to themselves  The outcome is the same if they don't and in some cases, the car driver is being penalised for the inappropriate behaviour of others and the larger vehicle is being asked to take responsibility under the proposals, no-matter who is at fault.  I can see why this strengthening of the rules is being proposed but I would argue that equitable, its not.  We all have a responsibility towards one another when out on public roads but some are flagrant in their stupidity and disregard of others.  It doesn't alter the laws which arguably are more focussed on built up areas where a majority of these accidents occur.  It makes my blood boil seeing drivers in cars turning on or off roads with phones glued to their ears or texting.  Personally, I think penalties for mobile phone use should be the same for drink driving...automatic disqualification.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 11:18
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

. Young mums pushing prams on the phone and not looking where they're going have a very low chance of killing people.


I would slightly disagree with that, but the person they are likely to kill is their own offspring. I'm constantly amazed at parents with prams or pushchairs who, when crossing a road, will stand with their feet at the kerb with the kid actually in the road. Coupled with having their eyes glued to a phone constantly it's a wonder we don't have kids being killed left right and centre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2021 at 11:59
Originally posted by Bladerunner919 Bladerunner919 wrote:

Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

. Young mums pushing prams on the phone and not looking where they're going have a very low chance of killing people.


I would slightly disagree with that, but the person they are likely to kill is their own offspring. I'm constantly amazed at parents with prams or pushchairs who, when crossing a road, will stand with their feet at the kerb with the kid actually in the road. Coupled with having their eyes glued to a phone constantly it's a wonder we don't have kids being killed left right and centre.
yes I’ve seen prams in not a very safe position too .
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