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Suspension linkage Upgrade ?????

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Spoonz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2008 at 18:54
Mpl are happy to make more but the numbers are too small.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2008 at 19:02
I'll give Konstantin at MPL another bash. Anyone want a Smaltmoto system from him to sweeten him up. He is involved with both companies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2008 at 13:19
Garin has spoken to his man and if he can't make the links he knows a man that can so fingers crossed we are moving forward.
 
Thanks Garin for your help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote v8-powered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2008 at 16:21
Fitted mine today, absolute doddle to fit even with the exhausts still fitted.
Big thanks to Spoonz for organising the purchase....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 10:33
Konstantin(MPL) tells me they have found 2 more silver and 1 black set of link plates that i may grab as an interim.
I'll let you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 10:43
If you get any linkage plates let me know, im definately getting the jitters reading all this and would like my mind on the road NOT the plates holding me and the bike upright.
 Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 12:16
Spoonz, What is your expert opinion on these.
 
 
It's a bit worrying, the score marks on the last picture, being on the suspect arm
Bike has only done 4200 miles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 12:45
It's very similar to mine and most of the other links that have been looked at closely.
The uneven wear was a major factor in the conclusion that there were some serious twisting forces going on with that area. cartainly the dog bone is rubbbing against the link.It's difficult to tell from your pics but the wear on mine is pretty deep in one particular area (nearly 1mm). For a part that is only 5 mm thick at that point that is 1/5 compromised and a scary scenario and i won't ride the bike with those links fitted.
 
As Stu(sabre) will testify my bike is always spotless and the linkage area is well greased etc so it's not a maintenance issue. I tend to be mainly a fair weather rider as well.
 
 
 


Edited by Spoonz - 03 Mar 2008 at 12:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 12:56

Me too, bike is cleaned and looked after at the end of every ride. Decent weather use only. The score marks on the inside of the right link is about 0.5mm deep on the thin arm. Ive only done 650 mile after swingarm recall so all bearings are well greased.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott2ride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 10:15
I have a theory o the linkages breaking...

I think Aprilia did the calculations for the part and concluded that it would be strong enough... And for the most part they are correct.

However!!!!

They failed to realise there would be lateral pressure on the linkage, which is additional to the tension and compression forces.

I have seen many of these parts now and here is my observations.

All the linkages have wear on their sides where they are being forced against where they attach to the swingarm and to the dogbone.

The linkages are held with bearings that are roller bearings. These rollers we always find to be skewed on an angle. They should be parallel to the bolt.

The bearings have been badly specified by Aprilia. These bearings are designed to be in cages when in this sort of use. They are not caged, they are free to move and twist.

The swingarm is twisting during normal use. In particular if lent over on high angles. This is perfectly normal and we want some flex. BUT... that flex is transferring to the linkage and causing them to be twisted (As shown by the scouring on the link plates and the squewing of the rollers). As the swingarm twists it causes the two plates to move laterally just a little bit. They are only designed to move up and down!

This minute twisting is causing the plates to be stressed in a manner they are not designed to be stressed. This is why the plate fails and it looks like it is twisted when broken.

Hope that makes sense. 

I think the part is simply minutely under engineered. And thats why...
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 11:25

My bearings seem fairly straight although i did have missing pins. There is enough evidence now as to what is going on with the links for Aprilia to at least comment me thinks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 13:29
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

My bearings seem fairly straight although i did have missing pins. There is enough evidence now as to what is going on with the links for Aprilia to at least comment me thinks.



Spoonz, if there are missing pins then they will be able to run at an angle as Scott say's, if all the pins are there they should be tight enough to allow them to stay relatively straightSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 14:29
Originally posted by badger badger wrote:

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

My bearings seem fairly straight although i did have missing pins. There is enough evidence now as to what is going on with the links for Aprilia to at least comment me thinks.



Spoonz, if there are missing pins then they will be able to run at an angle as Scott say's, if all the pins are there they should be tight enough to allow them to stay relatively straightSmile
 
I think the dealer lost most of the pins during the swingarm recall. I checked soon after i got it home and found 4 pins missing. I can't see that many left out at production time.
So it probably only did 100 miles with any missing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 12:29
Hi Spoonz.
 
I'm also getting jittery and want my bike back on the road, so if you do get any ally ones from MPL i'd be interested.
 
To be honest, ally or titanium, i'm not bothered, whichever you can get hold of the quickest, my bike's feeling neglected.
 
Out of interest, how many of us are waiting for a set now?  Surely anyone with an 04 onward bike has got to be looking to get a set, as the consequenses of it breaking don't bear thinking about...
 
Cheers,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 12:48
I have 2 silver and 1 black set coming from MPL.
 
1 silver set is for me until the Ti ones happen but the other 2 are up for grabs.
 
Now the problem being that there are 7 or 8 people wanting links that i know of so who gets the other 2 ?
 
I have an idea that will decide which i will run by you when i get the links in my hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 17:31

Your idea's not a jelly wrestling contest is it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 17:37
Originally posted by monkeeman monkeeman wrote:

Your idea's not a jelly wrestling contest is it?

 
Now there's a thought. Confused
 
No i was going to suggest picking a number 1 to 49 and the next lottery draw whoever is nearest the last drawn number gets the link.
See how many people shout for the MPl links. You might be the only one in which case problem solved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 18:57
Ive eventually got all the pins seals and bearings for the linkage after an eleven week wait. You know what i,ll be doing this weekend !!!! I hope that no onelse has to wait that long because as the weather picks up and the speed increases you really dont want to be play russian roulette .  Im really surprised that no company has come forward to produce the upgraded linkages as it seems that theres plenty of interest for them. A missed opportunity me thinks. jools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 19:49

Spoonz, I'd be up for one of the spare sets you have from MPL, doesn't matter what finish, just need to get the bike sorted.

Having read Scott's post on the bearings I checked mine today and found there to be quite abit of sideways movement on the bearing that mounts the dog bone to the frame. On inspection of all  the bearing I found all rollers are in place and that they were well greased, but thought with the amount of play that this one bearing had it must be knackered. On closer inspection I was shocked to discover that all of the play ( which is the same on all three) was actually from the bolt  diameter being a very sloppy fit in the centre bush of all caged roller bearings. Is this normal??? I've done the same job on my old ZX9R and I'm sure the bolts were a snug fit in the bushes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 20:21
The idea is that the the bolt just clamps the linkage sides together against the pivot pin.
once the pin is clamped tightly it cannot move in relation to the link plates so the dogbone rotates around it. The size of the bolt doesn't matter as long as it holds everything tight.
 
Having a tighter fitting bolt in relation to the pin would mean you maybe need less clamping force of the linkage plates but much higher risk of the bolt siezing to the pivot pin.
 
The one exception is the bolt where the dogbone meets the frame where there is little clamping going on. For reasons i don't know (probably alignment issues) Aprilia have left float for/aft in the pivot. They even give an acceptable figure for the end float in the service manual so it's there by design.
 
In case anyone fits AF1 links make note of the fact they specify 37nm for their links.


Edited by Spoonz - 06 Mar 2008 at 00:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008 at 20:43

I think I understand what you say about end float, but the only way I can describe it is that the dog bone can be moved (at the frame end) by about 2 to 3mm from side to side of the perpendicular in a pendulum motion, is this the same as you've described.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2008 at 00:04
By end float i mean if you got hold of the dog bone from the back and pulled backwards and forwards you would feel 2 or 3mm free play. That is caused but the fact as you rightly say that the bolt is a smaller diameter than the pivot pin. As i said i don't know the engineering reason behind it but it is by design and referenced by Aprilia. I have seen it on Japanes bikes as well so i think there is sound practice behind it. It's also common to all model years of rsv Tuono etc
 
In general with the link plates removed you will be able to move the dogbone because it is designed to move side to side to allow it to aline itself to the swingarm. Being mass produced the 2 will not be 100% straight and fixing them rigidly would put a permanant twisting load on the components.
 
 


Edited by Spoonz - 06 Mar 2008 at 00:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2008 at 11:40
Cheers for the explanation, that's at least one thing I can relax about. Just need the links now to get the bitch up and running, (the bike not the wife).LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote captianradish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2008 at 22:18
Spoonz do you no what grade the titanium is needed to make the plates a m8s looking in to getting some made up just needs to no what grade to use
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2008 at 01:02
I'm no metalurgist but the areospace guys that were originally going to make them said 6/4
 
that's 6al 4av. It's used in jet engines because it's emtremely tolereant to stress and abuse which is perfect for suspension.
 
On a general sadder note Garin stripped his linkage to fit his MPL links and what he saw on his original links has shocked him to the point of considering selling his Tuono. I hope he doesn't and i'll leave it to him if he wants to post pics and explain more. I have only seen pics but in the flesh they seem to have scared the hell out of him.
 
If you were not considering changing yours then think about it again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2008 at 19:43
First things first thanks to spoonz for his help, top bloke.

Check your links chaps !!!

Mine are not good, or rather one. Shocking amount of wear for a bike of
3500 miles, Just a year old. It is the dog bone causing the marks on mine,
New link plate's will go the same over time, so will need
checking.
I'm looking into teflon spacers, and Ti link plates. I have an engineer
coming over to measure up the spacers, he's waiting for the cost of laser
cut links. Hope that little lot sorts the problem, I shall use The MPL Plate's
I've got, and see how long it takes to mark them !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Mar 2008 at 11:33
Just sent pictures of the link plate to the dealer I use. This is his reply

We believe this could well be a fault and it would come under warranty
obviously but we would need to see the bike and all associated parts to
diagnose the problem to proceed with a claim to Aprilia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott2ride Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2008 at 22:36
Hi Garin
Could you please email me photos of your damaged plates. I have received a few pics from people but I dont think I have the shots of yours. This will be helpful with our quest to get Aprilia to recall the plates. PM me. Cheers
Scott
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPOOKY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 20:33

Spoonz, any news on the lottery for the spare links from MPL ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2008 at 21:03

Not heard since my last email to them requesting payment details.  They were funny about small numbers before so might have decided it's too much hassle for 3 links.

Garin's mate Steve might come up trumps first or go the AF1 route if your desperate.
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