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Rubbing front brakes. MC return port clogged?

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Blender81 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blender81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 12:39
was talking to my brother just recently about a similar issue, he clamps one side of the calipers pistons and pumps the other side out (not too far obs) to get further down the piston to remove any crap

Maybe worth a quick try before splitting them?

And on that point...what size trx is the caliper bolt? I tried a 30 (think it was) but felt too small so didnt risk it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prsv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 13:19
Also check the master cylinder piston is returning to the circlip inside.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 13:30
Originally posted by Blender81 Blender81 wrote:

was talking to my brother just recently about a similar issue, he clamps one side of the calipers pistons and pumps the other side out (not too far obs) to get further down the piston to remove any crap

Maybe worth a quick try before splitting them?

And on that point...what size trx is the caliper bolt? I tried a 30 (think it was) but felt too small so didnt risk it


Yeah I use a wooden hammer handle stuck between 2 opposing pistons to let me work on the other 2 separately. Can also wedge the hammer in and hold a piston with my hand to just get at 1 at a time too. I've been about as far as I dare before they pop out. The guy at the garage said the corrosion is more likely to be under this. As Prsv said, it's likely to be corrosion under the seals and in the seal groove.

Not sure on bolt size, I'll have a look later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 13:31
Originally posted by Prsv Prsv wrote:

Also check the master cylinder piston is returning to the circlip inside.


How would I go about checking this? Remove reservoir or remove plunger at lever end?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Prsv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 14:53
Circlip is behind dust cover where the rod goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 15:07
Roger. I'll have a look, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 09:28
A friend of a friend came through last night and kept his garage open after work to have a look. He didn't pop the pistons out but he did give them a good squirt with duck oil and put some copper grease around the sides of the pads where they rub the pad seat.

Initially freed it up enough to spin a couple of times but bound again after a short ride and discs were hot again. I re-aligned the caliper and axle in forks this morning and went for a blast. It doesn't appear to get any worse with extra speed which is my main worry on track.

I'll risk first session and see how it is when I come in. Bit worried about either tucking front or going over the bars if it locks.. Then I'll get a seal kit and take it all apart and start again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damo46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 09:41
just my opinion, but if the discs are binding up and are hot after a short spin on the road, no way would I risk doing a session on track.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 09:57
As damo says don't go there, you'll be off or wreck your discs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al_Rsv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 10:00
As Damo says, please be carefull. This happened to me doing about 30mph & felt a bit battered for a few days. I would hate to think what it would be like at higher speeds!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:16
You're probably right Damo.

I'm still going down because I rented a van and promised a mate a lift. Will take my bike on the off chance someone there can think of a quick fix. Or at least I could take the calipers apart while I'm sat in the paddock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:24
Just a word of caution with copper slip on the back of brake pads. It can migrate onto the braking surfaces and contaminate the pads.

I know the track day is tomorrow, but it's your brakes -a proper fix is a must. The risk to yourself and financially the bike, is too great. It will cost a lot more to fix it, if it goes pear shaped  and bodies don't always mend (ask me how I know about the latter)

I'd lend you the mc and calipers, if I had any spare.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:48
I asked the chap about the copper slip getting onto the friction surface and he said "nah, it'd burn off instantly".

I think my best bet is to get an extra bottle of brake fluid and spend the morning taking the calipers apart and cleaning under the seals. With any luck I can fix it for after lunch and be let out for afternoon sessions.

Gutted with myself for not having my bike ready after looking forward to Cadwell all winter. Each fix I tried seemed to work for long enough to fool me it was sorted before coming back worse the next time I rode. To start with the discs didn't even get very hot like they do now, it was just a minor drag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:56
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

I asked the chap about the copper slip getting onto the friction surface and he said "nah, it'd burn off instantly".



No it won't
You can put that stuff on exhaust header bolts/spark plugs (the hottest part of the motor) and it does not burn off 'instantly'
Give pads a thourough going over with brake cleaner.
Not a 100% fix, but It'll help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 12:14
Roger. I'll get that sh*t off the pads then. It didn't help at all anyway.

Probably should have spent last night taking calipers apart to clean the seals but at that point I was happy to go see someone with more experience than me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 16:37
get it fixed mate, probably be lots of help trackside , have a good trip .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 16:54
Yeah, that's the plan. Had a fair bit of Italian bike reliability banter so far and I'm aware I'm letting the side down PR wise by sitting in a packed paddock stripping my brakes.

Thanks. Even if I don't get to ride tomorrow there are worse places to be than working on my bike at Cadwell on a sunny day. Then my first proper track day will probably be back at Cadwell for an evening session later in the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 18:41
IF ...it starts binding again, or the front starts getting hot, gently crack open one of the nipples on a caliper.
If the fluid* spurts/shoots out under pressure, it's deffo not got enough free play at the m/c
Good luck

(*Don't forget to keep it off your paint, and be prepared to top up)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 18:48
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

I asked the chap about the copper slip getting onto the friction surface and he said "nah, it'd burn off instantly".


F*kc me there are some knobheads around masquerading as tecs.

And Duck oil on pistons and seals !!!Shocked

STOP,STRIP and replace seals having cleaned the grooves and polish the pistons,then you KNOW the calipers are good. Then investigate the master cylinder,this is potentially your life we're talking about here,people who've had their brakes lock on have been killed in the past,even if you survive it's a painful and probably very expensive time

I know it happened to one of my mates on a nearly new bike,fortunately he was riding out with the IAM/Rospa at the time and it was witnessed by them as well as Police examiners.

 KTM still tried to pass the buck though
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk

Looking forward to the next track day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 11:09
Oof is your mate alright?

I got to ride yesterday. After a few people scratching their heads I spotted the tyre guy down near noise testing. He had a look between tyre changes while I was in the morning briefing and was sorted when I came out of the briefing.

He'd "had the front end apart" and couldn't see anything untoward although he said he gave the pistons more of a working that it looked like they'd had. Possibly taken reservoir cap off while pushing them in forcefully or something. Either way, the wheel was able to spin about 1 and a half times, which for him was borderline ok. Recommended I did the 3 sighting laps then come in and check the discs. When I came in they were no warmer than they'd been before after a minute at 30mph so I went straight back out for the rest of the session and every other session of the day.

That chap was a life saver. Really helpful and only charged £20 for a day saving repair.

After the first session they seemed to have freed up a bit more and now spin more or less twice. Maybe they needed some hard braking to blow out the cobwebs or gunk. Although they seem ok now I'm still going to strip them down, replace the caliper seals and see what I can do about cleaning the master cylinder and maybe finding seals for it. Might look out for an OEM lever too although Ian's suggestion of filing them down seems to have done the trick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 11:10
Originally posted by Tifa Tifa wrote:

IF ...it starts binding again, or the front starts getting hot, gently crack open one of the nipples on a caliper.
If the fluid* spurts/shoots out under pressure, it's deffo not got enough free play at the m/c
Good luck

(*Don't forget to keep it off your paint, and be prepared to top up)


Thanks for this. Before I strip it down I'll try it to confirm/eliminate the master cylinder as a problem. Straight forward yet it never occurred to me to try it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 12:47
Glad you got it sorted and managed to get out on track,you can't beat an on the spot review by somebody that knows what they're doing.

This unfortunately excludes quite a few main dealer tec's Shocked

Also the caliper seals can harden slightly over time without leaking and may not pull back enough  on the pistons enough to relieve any drag,this and any crud accumulation behind the seals could be enough to cause problems.

You can't get a seal kit through Aprilia but you can from a KTM dealer or even an independent like Powerhouse.

In fact Griff might actually stock them so that's always worth a call before doing anything else.

I'm not sure if you can get repair kits for the brake master,although I've never tried but I'm sure someone on here would know for definite and be able to advise.

As for my mate,he got minimal joy out of KTM and sold his (repaired) RC8r asap and went back to a 'blade and is now a very highly qualified rider/instructor with an ex privateer BSB 'blade for on track use as well as his road bike
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk

Looking forward to the next track day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 14:22
I found caliper seals from Powerhouse. Pricy for little slices of rubber tubing aye! For all AP does for the Aprilia community I might check with them first.

I've had no luck finding MC service kits either. If there's an issue with it my options are either hope a clean and re-build sorts it or buy a replacement. Maybe there's a non OEM master cylinder that would work well and have seal kits available. There's much less exposure to crud at the lever so they might not need replacing as often as caliper seals. Hopefully it's just gunked up and will be good as new after a clean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 16:19
Glad you had a great day in the end Thumbs Up

Question everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 17:02
Originally posted by Diablo Diablo wrote:

Glad you had a great day in the end Thumbs Up



Beautiful day, circuit and bike!

My 03 Mille and a Gen 2 RSV in inters were the only Aprilia twins on the day. Lots of people were checking out my bike. Its amazing how much gap there is between demand and lust for RSVs. Every RSV I've seen sold has been a bargain and countless people have told me they've always wanted one but always bought something else. I heard my bike go up the mountain in a video clip a mate took and it sounded one of the best bikes there even with the stock can.

I wasn't the fastest there but I learned a lot and gained a good amount of confidence. My tyres now look worked too. The bike came on Pilot Road 3s that, after 5,000 road miles looked the same as the day I bought it. After one day at Cadwell they are now melted to the edges and looking as they should.

Can't wait to get back out on track again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 17:23
I couldn't agree more about the RSV's, plus you don't have to have the fastest bike, to have the most enjoyment. Track days are always going to make you a better rider all round, even if it were only confidence. I always thought a track day at the beginning of the year a good idea for most riders, after the winter layoff, to get ones mojo back and sharpen up.

If I could quote Gabro here, after someone was thanking him for still testing and developing the gen 1's... "the V60 will never die"

Keep us posted on any more track day  shenanigans Thumbs Up


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevieonit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2018 at 20:59
I normally dunk mine in ultrasonic cleaner for a couple of hours 
I'm onit !!!! 02 rsv & 10 R1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2018 at 21:09
Oof, doesn't that make them go numb?

Do you mean the calipers, master cylinder or both?
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