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RSV 04 intermittent fuel/electrical fault ?

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ajaycad View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 13:36
First ride of the year today after winter layup and service. As I was approaching a roundabout, bike started to run leaner as if running out of fuel, then cut out. Fuel light had been on for 15 or so miles, but I reckon you can get 30 miles on reserve.
Engine started straight away, luckily the petrol station was 100 metres away but bike ran fine. 
Filled up with normal unleaded (no super unleaded) bike ran fine for another 30 or so miles. Then cruising down dual carriageway at around 70 engine would occasionally "miss" as if it lost power for a split second then carry on fine. 10 miles later down some country lanes, bike would not rev, then would rev then cut out. Started straight away and off we go again. 
Park at my mates place, leave for 30 minutes, turn ignition on, no clocks or numericals in the display but the red ignition key is lit. Turn ignition off, then on, won't start. Turn ignition off then on again, starts first time.
Ride home, then after 7 or so miles, engine starts to baulk again, won't rev cleanly.
I stripped the bike over the winter, tank off, throttle bodies off, fuel pump out to replace the fuel filter.
I'm thinking a loose connection somewhere but that's me guessing. The bike rode fine last year, didn't miss a beat even on a 250 mile mega ride.
I'm thinking if its electrical, it will either run or won't run, so I'm thinking maybe fuel related.

Any ideas ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 17:23
Hey Andy 

I would say sounds like a fuel issue or blockage. Only thing that doesn’t is what you mention about the dash showing nothing on one occasion? 
The cutting out certainly sounds fuel like as it cuts then restarts. Had the similar issue with a clogged filter but as you’ve changed those it maybe worth ensuring a hose isn’t loose in the tank. 
Did you rebalance the throttle bodies? 

Also check the fuel hose to the regulator isn’t twisted or kinked 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 20:56
Hi James,

Didn't balance the throttle bodies. I've had the tank up this afternoon and checked all the fuel lines and electrical connectors... Nothing obvious. There are no fault codes registered either. I'm also thinking it's fuel related, when it baulked and cut out, when I restarted it there was no backfiring, making me think that its fuel starvation...I'm riding it tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.
I did drain the tank over the winter, so perhaps that has affected the fuel pump in some way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 21:33
Yeah give it a flush out 

I noticed the amount of gunge sat in my generators tank left over from draining it ahead of winter. Was like melted plastic lumps which is actually the ethanol I’m informed. 
Did you change the plugs? Check the HT lead caps as they can be intermittent. I had a high Rev misfire on the race bike and it was a knackered HT lead that left half of itself stuck on the spark plug when I checked it.

Check the white plug under the seat so that’s near the rear lamp loom too. I think it goes to the main fuses and had a red wire and a red/white by memory. It’s part of the ignition circuit and again the one on the race bike had started to weld itself together from corrosion giving cut outs during races. Snipped it out and hardwired it and never been an issue since. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 16:42
Update......so yesterday I lifted the tank and checked all the hoses /connections. I also refitted the Evo airbox mod (I had refitted the standard airbox cover to see if it made any noticeable difference in the ride ability) and disconnected and reconnected the ECU plugs. Spark plugs were changed over the winter.
Cleared the tank drains/vent, disconnected the white plug under the seat and reconnected -all fine. 
Today I went for a ride, 50 miles, and used the other spare key. Mainly twisty B roads from St Ives to Lands End, no constant throttle cruising on dual carriageways. Bike ran fine except for one tiny blip. 
It was a little lumpy when gently opening the throttle at low ish revs, so may look at balancing the throttle bodies at some point.
Just wondering how sensitive the RSV is to normal U/L or crap fuel ??
I usually use Super U/L, but the Esso petrol station I stopped at yesterday had run out, so had to make do with normal U/L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 17:03
Good to hear an improvement Andy 

I’ve only used normal unleaded in an emergency like you but I’ve not noticed a dip in performance that I can feel at least. Maybe run a cleaner/octane booster through it.
Hard to pin down issue in the fuelling as so much has changed but I’d certainly get the TB’s balanced plus SP isn’t too far from you I’m guessing? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 22:53
SP are about 100 miles from me. Not had any dealings with them, although a mate of mine bought his Triumph Speed Triple and Tiger from them and spoke positively about them...... 
I'll have a look at the manual to see what's needed to balance the TB's...... I have a set of vacuum gauges for balancing carbs, I'm assuming they can be used....... I'll definately have a go with some injector cleaner too, can't do any harm.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 23:27
I think you need an auto tune 3000 something or other to do it correctly. 

Give Griff a call if he is in the weekend and see what you need do as many garages don’t get it right oddly. 

Hesitation at low revs on pull away could well just be an imbalance on tbs 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 09:42
Hey peeps
Auto tune don't do throttle bodies unfortunately but iv used sp for a couple bits before including throttle bodies n they done a good job think you need gas analyser and axone tool to do it properly on a gen2 Thumbs Up oh and I've got a misfire at high rpm at mo since I changed plugs front cylinder was welded on
Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 10:33
Axone that’s the thingy! Couldn’t remember it’s name. 

Well done Hangry 👍🏻
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 10:43
I saw an Axone test kit on ebay a while ago.... Not cheap!!
Got some injector cleaner, so will give that a go. Can any other make of test equipment do the same as Axone I wonder?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 11:13
Not that I’m aware of once Hangry got the name right for me. 

If there isn’t perhaps that’s why not many people do it right 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 13:22
If you buy an a axone be aware that it requires an account with aprilia to download anything. So make sure it comes preloaded with files for your bike if you think you might need to update your ecu firmware etc. it will still be fine for diags though I would have thought. 

Pads works with our bikes I think,  if there is such a thing as an eBay back of a lorry version.  Same thing applies to downloads etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 00:20
Found an app called TuneECU.....works with Aprilia's apparently, though only lists the Caponord and Futura. If it could work with the RSV, would be handy for any fault finding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 10:08
Originally posted by ajaycad ajaycad wrote:

Found an app called TuneECU.....works with Aprilia's apparently, though only lists the Caponord and Futura. If it could work with the RSV, would be handy for any fault finding.

Don’t think it does unfortunately
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 17:59
I didn't think it would work........what are your thoughts Spoonz on the issue I was having, I agree with James that it seems to be fuel related, especially as I didn't have an issue (apart from one tiny blip) the next day when I rode it, but can't rule out an electrical issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 20:15
My first instinct is power. The blanking dash means you lost 12v temporarily. Maybe bad connection on the batt, 30amp fuses or a ignition switch loom etc. 

The reason it might have got better is possibly because you checked connections when chasing a fuel issue and possibly disturbed whatever the cause was into a better connection.  See how it goes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 20:35
Update........went for a 50 mile ride yesterday...put injector cleaner in the fuel. One occasion where it seemed to cut out for a split second, then later I thought I heard what sounded like a small backfire but it came from under the tank I think, almost like the throttle bodies spitting back. It could have been from the exhaust, can't be 100% sure, and it only happened once. Never any issue when accelerating quickly, pulls clean to the red line.
Low rev/light throttle isn't as smooth as I think it should be, so as James has said, should really get the T.B's balanced and mixture set properly, then that can be ruled out.
As Spoonz reckons, I'm leaning more towards an electrical issue, and I'm thinking plugs (unlikely as replaced over the winter) HT leads/Caps, Coils or the supply to the coils perhaps.
If we get a spell of crap weather, which is inevitable at some point, I'll whip all the panels off and check everything....
I did remove the nose cone and intake trunking and flap/vacuum pipes etc over the winter, so maybe I disturbed something.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 08:30
You could be onto something with the hoses. They do get small splits and can go back on the wrong way.
Someone did that a few months back on here and had symptoms though I forget what exactly 

I took this pic however but he didn’t require it as he looked at a diagram but if it helps 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 19:15
I do recall reading a post about the hoses....I'll try and look for it. Wasn't it to do with the vacuum anti return valve, the white disc in the lower left of your pics ??
I think I will buy a few metres of hose and replace all the vacuum pipes anyway, they do feel a little brittle, so after 17 years, they could do with replacing. Once done, I can rule that out - prevention better than the cure I guess !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ice-mille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 08:41
Did you connect the hose at the end of the, flap acctuater valve?
I can see in the pictures it is off.

Never mind see now it is not your pics.

Sorry.

John

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 12:51
Originally posted by Ice-mille Ice-mille wrote:

Did you connect the hose at the end of the, flap acctuater valve?
I can see in the pictures it is off.

Never mind see now it is not your pics.

Sorry.

John


Don’t worry John 
It is connected at the flapper and again on the solenoid. It’s under the two hoses and connected to the side of the solenoid. The two obscuring it are the ones that go from the solenoid and the other that goes to the tb’s 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 19:34
Update......
Not a happy bunny........dropped the bike onto its right side whilst turning around in a lay-by. Combination of wrong footing, crap 55 year old sense of balance, short legs and a gust of side wind......We've all done it !!
Luckily AP footpegs don't fold up, so the Akrapovic silencer was unmarked. Damage limited to footpeg end, bar end, brake lever (gutted as the were only fitted a couple of weeks ago - Evotech) mirror and some minor scuffs on the right fairing panel, which MAY polish out. Anyway, after I picked the bike up and went on my not so merry way, It then started coughing (as described in my first post above) and cutting out. The fuel light had come on, but it would go for a few hundred metres, maybe a mile or two, then stutter and cut out again....it felt like it was running lean as if running out of fuel. Ignition off, then on and start. Few hundred meters, same thing, with a backfire or two.
Managed to limp to a petrol station, filled up, and she ran ok, not perfect but didn't cut out, even through stopstart traffic and dual carriageway. Now I know that once the fuel light comes on, I had about 30 miles before running dry, however I may be mistaken, but the issue only materialised after dropping the bike on its side, and the fuel light coming on......It definitely feels like fuel starvation, but only when the fuel level in the tank gets to the point where the fuel light comes on. I didn't check or clean the tea bag filter over the winter...could that be the culprit. Perhaps the fuel pump ??
I used to fix Sea King and Merlin helicopters for a living, they were easy when someone else is paying for the spares !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 19:42
NNNNOOOOOO!! 
Ah Andy! 

Gutted for you. Totally sucks. 

Yes clean out the filter as a starting point. Certainly sounds like fuel starvation. Certainly be worth popping the whole assembly out the tank and see what’s going on. If you get really stuck I have a working fuel pump also as a track bike spare.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 20:03
No way sorry to hear this.
I was trying to find this post earlier cuz someone having similar symptoms and wanted to know how it was going. Definitely try what wigginsjp said Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 20:17
Sounds like either a pin hole in the in tank fuel hose that sucks in air when level is low or fuel pump. When on the way out they tend to overheat when they lose the cooling of the fuel.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 21:22
Thanks guys.......
Definitely going to check the tea bag filter when I get the pump assembly out. Regarding the in tank hose you mention spoonz, I’m not in a position to check my bike at the moment, do you mean the hose from the pump to the canister filter ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 21:29
Seen those hoses you describe pop off easily as it goes due to age. 
Once the pumps out you may see an easy fix. If you can wait a couple of days I will grab my spare pump for a photo so you can see the hoses if you like or google doesn’t give you decent images Andy? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2021 at 06:21
Thanks James that would be a help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2021 at 16:43
Here you go. Hope it helps. 

Lower hose is one of those nasty ones that age however if the level was that low I’m sure it would be cutting out at an angle or when fuel sloshes about. The top long ‘ribbed’ one may be your issue. Both hoses are held on by those annoying clips that don’t like going back on and require tooling to make them fit. I’ve seen both the lower and top pop off of others bikes in the past. Let me know if you need anymore Andy 

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