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Airbox mod....

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Topic: Airbox mod....
Posted By: Paddedcell100
Subject: Airbox mod....
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 16:38
http://s1038.photobucket.com/user/adameborall/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0299_zpsgkloiqzj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">

Hello chaps.
I had a few days off this week so got stuck into my airbox modification.
I saw one somebody had made like this on Rsvzone and liked the look of it so I used a spare airbox, a Smaltmoto ring and an ITG filter to sort of combine a larger, sealed type of airbox with the security of the Renegade type... So far so good.
Finished it today and went for the first test ride and, while I was expecting the fuelling to not be perfect, it was absolutely terrible...a massive hole in the bottom of the rev range,, basically nothing until 4000 revs, had to slip the clutch to pull away and to go around roundabouts, so just came straight back and put it back to the original airbox but just with an Ironbite airbox ring, went out for another test and it's spot on.
So my question is, if I'd fitted a Renegade and went for a test ride without having it set up, would that also have destroyed the fuelling in the bottom of the range?
I still like the idea of the one I made and I'm sure it could be set up properly on the dyno but I just didn't expect it to have such a massive, negative impact, especially when swapping to the Ironbite ring straight after and that's really good so any thoughts gratefully appreciated.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....



Replies:
Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 17:00
did you fully seal it around the base in the end? if not it was probably running very lean at low revs.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 17:14
I had some foam seal running all around the bottom of the filter plate so that was,pretty well sealed to the bottom of the airbox, I would think anyway🤔. Will have to perhaps try a different method to seal that part.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: damo46
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 18:56
Some, probably a lot, will disagree, I personally will never change from the standard airbox, apart from what I have done to it, k&N airfilter and the restrictor plate removed that would be it. I'm sure the sound off the bike with the other style airbox is really good but I like to know everything in nicely sealed, for what gain there would be in the midrange I don't think it's worth it. To set up properly a power commander should be fitted and mapped, in my case I have a Redrat modded collector, gabro f255 chip and leo vince can.If I fit a power commander on top of that with the standard box there would be an improvement anyway, so with an open airbox how much of the gain is actually down to the box rather than the correct set up.






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Road Racing Ireland, Do It Between The Hedges


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 18:57
That looks like a gen 2, put an Autotune At 300, I got the same ring swaped a few times with different velocity stacks it will give you the best what ever you put on it, I am running 15/42 gearing and it pull from nothing and can pull 10K in top best of both worlds.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 19:16
Originally posted by damo46 damo46 wrote:

Some, probably a lot, will disagree, I personally will never change from the standard airbox, apart from what I have done to it, k&N airfilter and the restrictor plate removed that would be it. I'm sure the sound off the bike with the other style airbox is really good but I like to know everything in nicely sealed, for what gain there would be in the midrange I don't think it's worth it. To set up properly a power commander should be fitted and mapped, in my case I have a Redrat modded collector, gabro f255 chip and leo vince can.If I fit a power commander on top of that with the standard box there would be an improvement anyway, so with an open airbox how much of the gain is actually down to the box rather than the correct set up.






I just wanted to try the airbox mod, missed out on a Renegade a while back and saw that somebody had made a version like this and thought I'd give it a go.
I also managed to get an Ironbite airbox ring ages ago and I've put a new seal around that and that's what I've got on it from today.
I had my bike mapped a couple of years ago and I've got a PC3 on it and with the Ironbite I can feel a big chunk of extra midrange, that's without it even being set up specifically with that mod, I just wanted that extra security of the filter over the stacks.
I'm going to persevere with it and make a better seal for the underside of the filter plate and then if I eventually get round to getting AP to do the 1060 I'll have a word and see what they think, whether it's worth giving it a go and seeing how it comes out being properly set up or whether, instead of being the best of both types of airbox mod, it's actually the worst of both types 🤔.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 19:24
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

That looks like a gen 2, put an Autotune At 300, I got the same ring swaped a few times with different velocity stacks it will give you the best what ever you put on it, I am running 15/42 gearing and it pull from nothing and can pull 10K in top best of both worlds.


Is the autotune a stand alone unit or is it compatible with a PC3?

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 19:30
Another good mod is to take the crankcase breather from inside the airbox, pointless putting hot air into the engine, it's only done for emissions.
That's the reason I didn't do the renegade f**k noise I want power and with them all the hot air run into engine. The colder the the more dense it is.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 19:51
How did you end up rerouting your crankcase breather then Dog??
I've just checked on the autotune, it's only for a PC5 isn't it?

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: Diablo
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 20:01
Yes but as Dog and RedRat said on the other thread, Smaltmoto do a modded PCV to run on
Gen 1's and possibly DynoJet could potentially do one too. There's a number for Richard at Dynojet on there too.

*Edit* Oops! You are Gen 2 ar''t you. Talking about the Autotune not being a stand alone unit? Or am I just being my usual confuzzled self


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Question everything.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 20:31
I'm confusing myself fella(it's not hard )...
Mine is a gen2 and it's got a PC3 installed at the minute and a custom map,I just thought I'd try the two mods and see how they felt.
I'm happy to wait until I get the 1060 done to get everything set up at the same time, but if the autotune worked with a PC3 then I might have kept my eye out for one.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 21:32
I just got a small crankcase breather a bit like yours and put it out side the air box with   a bit of pipe and zip tied it under the airbox, then run a small bit of pipe from the airbox and plugged the end as I am running a Piper cross filter and velocity stacks are exposed I cut away the the original housing for mesh with a dremel to give it a better airflow a around the stacks I will send you some pics soon, I think it made a difference but this bike changes every week, don't know where I am sometimes, but long it goes quicker and the power delivery is good I am happy, and she's quick but sometimes you got go your own way to find out and it can be expensive and it doesn't all work, but you will never know till you try like yourself.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 21:47
Some pics would be great buddy 👍. I think I'm going to stick with my Ironbite for the minute as, even without any extra setting up, it's running really nicely and it's got a very good seal and I'll keep working on my other airbox/filter to try and make a better seal under the filter plate because I do think it's got potential.
The Ironbite ring does feel really nice at around 7000rpm, just has a really nice extra bit of pick up.
I'm hoping it won't be too long until I get the cash together for the 1060 kit and I'll make my final decision on the airbox by then.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 22:03
Paddedcell read recent powercomander post, I think I would be a great help to you, it can even do a throttle bodies ballance.
Looks like we will be getting the 1060 at the same time.
I am working on the big valve heads also thinking of getting a
a crankcase relief valve, heard some good things about them from website Japan.I will be taking it down this weekend and will get some pics off to ya


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 22:26

Here's old one without the smaltmoto carbon velocity stacks.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 22:34
Ah, I get ya now. That's the same as mine is now(running the Ironbite ring), but I'm obviously still using the original crankcase breather reservoir.
I take it you are happy with the seal of the Smaltmoto ring? The one on my Ironbite seems spot on.
I've just read the power commander post.... Bugger.... Looks like i want a PC5 and an Autotune now then🙈.... Haha.

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 23:22
It's brilliant, but glad I didn't get a renegade for the reasons explained,but I am also running Brisk plugs and have run them back to back with Ngk iridium but runing one hotter than recommended, it made an amazing difference but I am concI erned about detonation as it could cause pre ignition but f**k it will be getting a 1060 this winter, so I can check the pistons but it revs so quick it unbelievable but the Autotune probably keeps them in check as the mixture is always correct what ever it's running it does labour sometimes when warm to start even with obtain booster only to stay on the safe side.
But it probably to do with the sh*t stater leads Johnboy leads on the way so I will find out if it is pre ignition or just a hot start problem.


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2016 at 23:35
Hmmm.... im thinking that im leaning towards sticking with the ironbite now although id still like to finish off the version of the renegade that ive been making,just for my own self satisfaction as much as anything else.
Do the smaltmoto stacks just bolt straight on to the existing throttle bodies? Id kinda like some carbon ones i have to admit

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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2016 at 00:17
Send the info in morning, yes the do, always buy the lowers not tall lose much top end.
Go with the airbox always admire people that are prepared to try and make different parts.


Posted By: kralik
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 14:31
Originally posted by Paddedcell100 Paddedcell100 wrote:

http://s1038.photobucket.com/user/adameborall/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0299_zpsgkloiqzj.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">

Hello chaps.
I had a few days off this week so got stuck into my airbox modification.
I saw one somebody had made like this on Rsvzone and liked the look of it so I used a spare airbox, a Smaltmoto ring and an ITG filter to sort of combine a larger, sealed type of airbox with the security of the Renegade type... So far so good.
Finished it today and went for the first test ride and, while I was expecting the fuelling to not be perfect, it was absolutely terrible...a massive hole in the bottom of the rev range,, basically nothing until 4000 revs, had to slip the clutch to pull away and to go around roundabouts, so just came straight back and put it back to the original airbox but just with an Ironbite airbox ring, went out for another test and it's spot on.
So my question is, if I'd fitted a Renegade and went for a test ride without having it set up, would that also have destroyed the fuelling in the bottom of the range?
I still like the idea of the one I made and I'm sure it could be set up properly on the dyno but I just didn't expect it to have such a massive, negative impact, especially when swapping to the Ironbite ring straight after and that's really good so any thoughts gratefully appreciated.


Hi,
I like your solution with this airfilter.
Could you just advice, what type of ITG airfilter have you used for it?

thanks


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good luck or bad luck, who knows
Proud owner of Aprilia Tuono 1000 R


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 15:00
Hi Kralik, is that a gen 1?
Paddedcell is the best one to ask, they got some new airbox copy of something that ain't built anymore. 
He was working on it last night, I give him shout later and ask him to give you some information 👍😊


Posted By: Ice-mille
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 18:26
Gen2 i think



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Shake’n bake


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2020 at 19:07
Originally posted by Ice-mille Ice-mille wrote:

Gen2 i think

Hi Ice_mille, if that is the case it's a gen 1 I would not bother with the filter on top of the throttle bodies, I would get some Stefteni double throttle stacks and a filter in the front with a good restraints 👍. Sorry I ain't been on here for a while, but I will be back soon. All the best Rich 👍 


Posted By: Ice-mille
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 10:09
Thanks. 

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Shake’n bake


Posted By: kiwi_rsvr
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 12:52
Whether Gen1 or Gen2 fit a catch can and dont have the problem of the engine sucking hot oily vapour back in and diluting the fuel/air mix.

*** Possibly may not notice any benefit in terms of outright power but at least the fuel/air mix wont get diluted ***   


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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 13:09
I got a one way valve, which causes negative pressure in the crankcase. I did know the proper name of it. Been a while since I worked on the Aprilia. But I promised her that soon I get back from Almeria with the Superstock R1 I will get her on the road. Plus put a PFM race rear caliper on it.
I really want it back on the road this year, I miss riding it, but I just ain't got time till May then a service and two new brake lines on the front. The Aprilia is a much better road bike, the R1 is just too     ballistic for the road£👍


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2020 at 13:14
My crankcase feed goes through the valve and then into a filter outside the airbox,  can't see the idea of putting hot air into the airbox, it has worked well for a few years now, a catch tank I did think off, but finding a place for it wasn't easy. 


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 06:52
Hello buddy. 
 I used an ITG JC20 filter, you can get them in varying heights, it's going back a bit but I think the 65mm one was the one I used here...
Just to let you know though, I struggled to get it to seal properly at the bottom of the filter (my design and implementation, nothing to do with the filter), so scrapped this idea and just stuck with my ironbite in the end...if I wanted to go for a box filter type solution again then I would go for one of Jollys airtrays (he wasnt making the gen 2 version at the time I did this). 

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/itg-megaflow-air-filter-jc20-itg-jc20" rel="nofollow - https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/itg-megaflow-air-filter-jc20-itg-jc20


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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2020 at 06:57
Hi Adam, what's the new airbox you was working on the other day was that for a gen 1, is that going to have them oval filters on it.
Surely we ain't on about putting that on a gen 2?


Posted By: kommando
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 16:49
The easiest way to get a non return valve that works in a hot environment is to use an ERG valve. These are a reed valve which keeps operating at high revs.

To get a second hand one got to ebay and search for ERG valve within motorcycle parts. You will get a number of options with different angles between inlet and outlet, I usually go for 180 degree ones. They will cope with an 850 cc 360 degree twin so a 1000cc 60 degree V twin will task it even less.

This is a 90 degree one



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Exhaust-Emission-Valve-EGR-Valve-for-AJS-CR3-125/162889794085?hash=item25ecfd0225:g:XkwAAOSwW9Raed0J


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 18:29
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

Hi Adam, what's the new airbox you was working on the other day was that for a gen 1, is that going to have them oval filters on it.
Surely we ain't on about putting that on a gen 2?

Hello Rich. 

That's a gen 1 Edward's airbox from Georg Hecker (who brought all of the MSS moulds), so that will be going on the Mille (also got a brand new set of genuine Edwards 57's waiting to go on it😉👌).  
https://postimg.cc/9RRRCcTZ" rel="nofollow">



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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 22:54
Loving all this being done nice workThumbs Up can anyone still get hold
Of stafanos double stacks?also like the auto tune sounds good
Would one have to mod the headers on a smalt system for the two
Sensors.


Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 23:22
I have a set of stepicentis double stacks for 57’s if you’re interested?


Posted By: badapple
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 01:37
Nice Ad good find that, take it you're keeping the gen1 then? Ment to ask you the other day what you were doing with it. 

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I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 07:26
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

I have a set of stepicentis double stacks for 57’s if you’re interested?
hey hemi I would be very interested indeed if you could PM me with a price and a pic that would be ideal.Thumbs Up


Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 08:14
Ok, I’m in the unit later and I’ll take a picture.


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 09:23
Nice one thanks matey.Thumbs Up


Posted By: redratbike
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 09:59
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

I have a set of stepicentis double stacks for 57’s if you’re interested?
did you try them ?? 

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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk


Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 10:38
Yes, didn’t work with my setup.


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 11:46
What set up was that hemi?its just heard all good reports
About them but if they don't work Cry I know all bikes are different still I'd like
To give em a go lol


Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 12:19
1103 with ported head, Kent cams, 57mm tb’s with mss airbox.


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 14:37
Originally posted by Hangry Hangry wrote:

Loving all this being done nice workThumbs Up can anyone still get hold
Of stafanos double stacks?also like the auto tune sounds good
Would one have to mod the headers on a smalt system for the two
Sensors.
The 18mm bungs need to be 5" to 6" from the start of the header, you need a Pcv to run it off too.  You need one in each of the headers. Google fitting instructions for AT300 Dynojet and it explains in there where the bungs have to be welded 👍


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 16:18
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

1103 with ported head, Kent cams, 57mm tb’s with mss airbox.
wow lol nice I know they work well on standard bore from dyno test that af1 did on same bike same day ect.so if price is rite ,and can't beat a nice bit of carbonWink


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 16:19
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

Originally posted by Hangry Hangry wrote:

Loving all this being done nice workThumbs Up can anyone still get hold
Of stafanos double stacks?also like the auto tune sounds good
Would one have to mod the headers on a smalt system for the two
Sensors.
The 18mm bungs need to be 5" to 6" from the start of the header, you need a Pcv to run it off too.  You need one in each of the headers. Google fitting instructions for AT300 Dynojet and it explains in there where the bungs have to be welded 👍
nice one dog thanks for info Thumbs Up


Posted By: Paddedcell100
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 21:44
Looking at a system on the Smaltmoto website it looks like their systems (certainly the most recent ones at least)came with the ports already fitted.

https://www.smaltmoto-shop.de/smaltmoto-komplettanlage-mit-edelstahl-endschalldaempfern" rel="nofollow - https://www.smaltmoto-shop.de/smaltmoto-komplettanlage-mit-edelstahl-endschalldaempfern


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Better to have something you don't need than need something you don't have....


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 09:20
Originally posted by Paddedcell100 Paddedcell100 wrote:

Looking at a system on the Smaltmoto website it looks like their systems (certainly the most recent ones at least)came with the ports already fitted.

https://www.smaltmoto-shop.de/smaltmoto-komplettanlage-mit-edelstahl-endschalldaempfern" rel="nofollow - https://www.smaltmoto-shop.de/smaltmoto-komplettanlage-mit-edelstahl-endschalldaempfern
lol yes you are write they do have the ports didn't realise till I had a look this morning Embarrassed can't get on there website for some reason any more tho.


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 09:38
Smalmoto has finished as a business, shame really.
I remember a few months ago saying goodbye to Konstantin and wishing him good luck on AF1.
If like Adam says they are already in there 18mm for the wideband sensors you will be fine 👍


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 09:44
Yes it is a shame even though I had fitting issues it is quality stuff but yes they do have much larger ports on headers so looks good to go if I go that route cheers.


Posted By: dog78
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:00
You won't regret it, change exhaust or the velocity stacks and it will map itself. I have had mine since 2015.
You can map it for every gear if you want, not that I bothered. 
I have one lower tooth on the front sprocket and it's a breeze in town. Mine runs a live map, so it's mapping all the time. 
I need to get Aprilia running again after May, the other bike is taking up all my time atm.
The AT300 installation is quite straightforward, just need to get a feed for the live that can take the amps. The At200 is OK to run from the rear light wire but that has only one sensor but with the At300 it blew a fuse 
If I get a chance I will take a picture of where I took the feed from that runs off the ignition and post it on here. 👍


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2020 at 10:39
Cheers dog good info definitely worth thinking about Thumbs Up


Posted By: redratbike
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 08:45
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

I have a set of stepicentis double stacks for 57’s if you’re interested?
did these sell do you have a price ? 

Someone after a set else where 


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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk


Posted By: 426hemi
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 09:25
I still have them,I’m looking for them in the unit as I boxed everything up and now they’re lost in a mountain of boxes, someone already has first dibs though when I find them.


Posted By: Hangry
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2020 at 10:44
Yep still interested Wink



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