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Oil tank position

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Fugly View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:04
Hi all,

I have a (bizarre) question for those of a mechanical persuasion.

Is there a reason for the position of the oil tank on the 990's?
What I mean is, if it were higher would the oil drain through gravity into the engine causing start up issues or does the pump hold the level in the engine?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:41
I have a diagram of the oil flow somewhere hold tight
 
but this may explain it for you
 

Dry-sump oiling system explanation

A simple explanation of how a dry-sump oiling system works in the RSV1000 Mille, SL1000 Falco, RST1000 Futura, and Pegaso 650. This oiling system can also be found on all types of race cars (F1, Indy, circle-track, even NASCAR).  This dry-sump oiling system frees up lost horsepower and prevents oil starvation problems associated with long wheelies and high G-forces.  Aprilia is the only one to use this dry-sump oiling system in all of their 4-stroke motorcycles. I strongly feel that other manufacturers should also use this system. 

The basic dry-sump oiling system consists of two oil pumps, an oil filter, and an oil tank.

We'll start at the oil tank, since most of you know where that is located.  The oil tank always contains a minimum level of oil.  The oil is drawn down the bottom hose to the first oil pump called the pressure oil pump.  The pressure oil pump pushes the oil through the oil filter, and then to all major lubrication points (bearings, crankshafts, cams, transmission gears, etc.) thru oiling passages just like in all other engines. This pressure pump is analogous to the single oil pump in a wet-sump engine.

Oil splashes off the moving parts and drains to the bottom of the crankcase.  Here, is the main difference between dry-sump and wet-sump.  In a typical wet-sump engine, the crankcase (oil pan) is very deep and full of oil.  The crankshaft partly spins through this oil causing a HP loss. The single oil pump in a wet-sump engine has its pickup in the oil pan.  Under certain conditions (high G-forces, long wheelies, stoppies, etc.), this oil pickup can be sucking in air and not oil.  This will starve all the moving parts for oil. NOT GOOD!!!

In a dry-sump Aprilia engine, the oil does not sit in the pan, hence the bottom of the crankcase is "dry" and very compact.  A second oil pump, called the recovery or suction oil pump, returns this oil back to the oil tank through a hose.  This hose connects to the top of the oil tank.  With a dry-sump system the "oil pan" is effectively moved to the side of the engine (now called the oil tank).  Remember, because the oil tank always has oil to feed the pressure pump,  the pressure pump will not run out of oil.  No oil starvation problems!!!

This system allows the engineers to make a more powerful and compact engine, and provide adequate lubrication under all conditions (high G-forces, long wheelies, stoppies, etc.).  It frees up lost horsepower by not spinning the crankshaft through several inches of oil.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:41
The aim is to have the feed lines as short as poss and that has more to do with it's location than pure height I would think. I suspect having it too low is worse than too high. Depsite being called a dry sump, some oil remains in the motor. If it didn't the engine would be dry at startup. If you had the tank lower than the engine, then gravity would drain 100% of the oil back into the tank. The longer the lines, the more pressure loss as it's further from the pump and the colder the oil gets especially on the return after it's been through the cooler.
 
The pressure on the return side is quite low anyway so in an extreme case location wise if you had long lines and colder oil etc maybe you could get problems with enough return to the tank to meet the supply side.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:45
schematic oil flow
 

 1) Camshafts
2) Cam Chain Tensioner
3) Upper Balance Shaft
5) Piston Cooler Nozzle
6) Lower Balance Shaft
7) Oil Tank
8) Oil Cooler
9) Oil Filter
10) Oil Pressure Relief Valve
11) Clutch Shaft
12) Crankshaft
13) Oil Pressure Switch
 
 
 
and a another
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fugly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 14:05
OK thanks for that.

Mmmmm doesn't kill the idea.

Just need ot get my current project finished and will then be on the lookout for a cheap RSV Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 14:08
Originally posted by Fugly Fugly wrote:

OK thanks for that.

Mmmmm doesn't kill the idea.

Just need ot get my current project finished and will then be on the lookout for a cheap RSV Wink
so what you upto then and why do you want to move the oil tank ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fugly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 14:37
To early to announce yet as lots of  research still to do, plus am just starting a fairly major fabrication project which has priority over a 37 year old pipe dream.
But the itch is strong and I fancy a having a scratch at it.

Will let you know when / if I get the ball rolling 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 14:53
Ha ha, I know what you're up to Phil Big smile

I'll help you if you need.

I have a similar plan, but not going to be able to start it for a year or so.

We're due a meet up, can discuss then. Ive been laid up with my back again and got a bit down about it. I've had a word with myself and will bounce back like I always do Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 17:16
woo hoo special builds love it love love it HeartThumbs Up
 
unfortunately my bike is a mile from my house in a lock-up with no power etc etc ..I rarely get up there...lazy old man syndrome LOL
 
finally got up the garage this week for half a day or so sorted the rear suspension linkage on the falco, rear tyres on both  the mille and falco
 
the mille now needs clutch bleeding or  new line ,radial m/c and another slave which I have got  before MOT ready for TT att eh end of the month Wink
 
Falco will probably be bolted back together MOT'd and sold to raise funds
 
and at last the knobblies for the project falco at last have been mounted on the rims.
 
180 width knobblie woo hoo ha ha
 
 
 
 
 
being that I don't get up there much and the project needs an engine swap its going to be a long project so a couple weeks a go a mate delivered 20 sheets of ply and osb enough to take down the shed and playhouse at home and build something so I can work on bikes at home
 
project man-cave starts after I come back from TTThumbs Up 
 
although she is probably wanting project living room/bedroom/kitchen to start instead LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Higham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 19:38
My 1955 BSA is also dry sump. The oil tank is located just below the seat to avoid hiding such a beautiful engine

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 19:53
You can't say the rotax v990 Is a beuatiful engine that's why they covered it in crap ha ha


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 08:55
Check out this build ... he has an under engine oil tank
http://www.taimoshancycleworks.com/bikes/super-cafe-racer/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 10:26

The ally frame on the aprilia's is lovely. The engine is the horrible die cast aluminium that the japs made their engines out of...
The japs added zinc to the aluminium to make stronger and more consistent casting. The downside is the aluminium and the zinc react to moisture and other things like salt. That's why most new bikes have painted engine casings. Everyone seems to have gone down the added zinc for casting.
K
Ps lovely gold star btw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 10:55
I suspect position of the oil tank is more to do with packaging than any technical reason.
Motorcycle friendly B&B or self catering at its best at:
http://www.acornaccommodationnorthdevon.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 12:28
AS I recall from that build he was on asking questions every now and again about how best to do things

So yes,like a few things on that very well built bike it was a compromise just to get everything in

I saw that bike at the NEC show and tbh it didn't seem quite so nice in the flesh,somehow it looks so genuine but when close up the proportions are just a bit out which takes some of gloss off.

Superb build though,very well engineered,it's just that a quart in a pint pot is always going to be a problem
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Looking forward to the next track day
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