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Spoonz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 21:24
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Once again the voice of reason Clap

It's very easy to get carried away sitting bored in front a screen full of bling

Fork wise I'm quite happy to dabble among the shims and pistons but I'd leave the rear shock to someone else


Forks are where it’s at. Far more tuneable by the owner and much greater rewards if you do it right. maybe it’s my off-road roots but I can tolerate all manner of rear end shortcomings and still ride safely and fairly quickly. If the front end is awful, forget it, horrid to ride, etc etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 21:41
Totally agree

Although the rear end on the Gen2 Tuono R leaves a lot to be desired compared with the equivalent Sachs on the budget Mille

The accountants definitely had their pound of flesh there Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 21:42
Wilbers suspension is worth looking into, very good quality and prices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 23:25
MHR on spoonz recommendation did a good job on servicing my rear shock, re powder coated the spring etc, came back looking and feeling like new, should of had a lighter spring fitted in hind sight, next time its serviced.
Had the front fitted with upgraded valving, nice, not until i changed the springs did it really make a difference, Hay ho only took 30k to do it properly !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 11:05
Originally posted by Garin Garin wrote:

MHR on spoonz recommendation did a good job on servicing my rear shock, re powder coated the spring etc, came back looking and feeling like new, should of had a lighter spring fitted in hind sight, next time its serviced.
Had the front fitted with upgraded valving, nice, not until i changed the springs did it really make a difference, Hay ho only took 30k to do it properly !
thanks everyone for all the help I'll ring around in a bit Thumbs Up iv just checked the adjusters top bottom clicks nicely,but just noticed that all the new dogbone bushes are about 4/5mm longer than old ones?Confused which is ok till you try n put front dogbone to the frame mount.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 13:04
All sorted gen1 kit by mistake lol the boss sorted itThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 13:56
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Although I don't think you'd get much aftermarket new for £600 these days would you?

I agree regarding throwing new internals into any standard budget shock probably isn't the most cost effective route.

The law of diminishing returns apply I feel.

Trouble is most people who have top shelf kit tend to stick with it and certainly know it's value if they do sell





Nitron R1 for £462, valved and sprung for you:

I'm sure you can get Maxton for a similar amount too. Wish shocks were more standard as it would make finding used ones much easier. As it is you have to match up the length (around 325mm) with the spring (about 100Nm to get the valving in the ballpark) as well as the right mounting points.


Just out of curiosity I requested some upgrade info from Maxton my preferred source of suspension knowledge and you were right ,I apologise for doubting you Embarrassed. Maxton RT10 custom made to personal spec with a remote res  goes for £630 +Vat.

Perhaps I was thinking about the combined costs to get the figure I remembered?

Just for future info should anyone wonder I'll copy the Maxton response here

uploads/3055/APRILIA_RSV1000_MILLE_04_08.pdf

Although this is a generic response for all '04/08 RSV's I have my doubts the prices mentioned are actually current.

I do agree with their evaluation of the OE setup though,never could understand why people thought them so good as supplied.

Perhaps most riders are racing snakes or Italian midgets,unfortunately I'm far from being either Confused

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 14:32
I’ve never used Maxton myself but the 1 experience involving them wasn’t the greatest. My friend had a brand new Tenere and fitted a Maxton shock for our trip to Spain. After a bumpy section of road his shock blew, not in a small way either, it dumped its entire guts on the exhaust in the space of 20 ish miles and had zero damping whatsoever.  It was the smell that first alerted us to a problem, it smelt like a real bad fart and was a mare to ride for the rest of the trip. 

When we got back he returned it and to be fair they didn’t quibble and sorted it. But the fault was a part that hadn’t been de burred Pre assembly and had shredded the seal. I’m fully aware that these things happen to the best of businesses and it may be a one off but it did make me wonder about the quality control that it hadn’t been inspected pre assembly. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 14:53
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:


Just out of curiosity I requested some upgrade info from Maxton my preferred source of suspension knowledge and you were right ,I apologise for doubting you Embarrassed. Maxton RT10 custom made to personal spec with a remote res  goes for £630 +Vat.

Perhaps I was thinking about the combined costs to get the figure I remembered?

Just for future info should anyone wonder I'll copy the Maxton response here


Although this is a generic response for all '04/08 RSV's I have my doubts the prices mentioned are actually current.

I do agree with their evaluation of the OE setup though,never could understand why people thought them so good as supplied.

Perhaps most riders are racing snakes or Italian midgets,unfortunately I'm far from being either Confused

 

I’d agree with about 50% of their comments In general but it’s not clear whether they are referring to ohlins or showa half the time. Would question Stiffer springs in ohlins forks for the majority of riders ? Maybe the average rider weighs more than I think. The compression damping comment is spot on though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 15:09
Unusual I would think but like most very small outfits sh*t happens occasionally, it certainly did at the shop I worked at and we were highly regulated as we did defence work.

But if you look round almost any club race paddock you'll see more Purple springs and stickers than Yellow by far so they have a massive customer base,possibly too massive for their size?

I tend to default to them as they're quite local and if you have any questions Richard is usually available on the phone. The major downside is that everything is bespoke and they're the only people that can service them unlike say Ohlins with thousands of dealers worldwide.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 15:29
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:



Although this is a generic response for all '04/08 RSV's I have my doubts the prices mentioned are actually current.

I do agree with their evaluation of the OE setup though,never could understand why people thought them so good as supplied.

Perhaps most riders are racing snakes or Italian midgets,unfortunately I'm far from being either Confused

 

I’d agree with about 50% of their comments In general but it’s not clear whether they are referring to ohlins or showa half the time. Would question Stiffer springs in ohlins forks for the majority of riders ? Maybe the average rider weighs more than I think. The compression damping comment is spot on though. 


That's partly what I meant by generic,this is still the standard handout from years ago although I was specific my question to them was about a 2008 model Showa and Sachs equipped Tuono.

I also very much doubt they recommend stiffer Ohlins springs for all.  

Showa almost certainly yes though as only the compression damping is supporting the riders weight,the dive under heavy braking is epic,followed by an almost instant BOING back as the rebound damping doesn't !

It's easily managed though by some judicial juggling of shims between the compression and rebound stacks in the cartridge,although a mid valve would be nice to have as well

One can spend many happy hours playing in the cartridges Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 16:36
There's the NR4 too for £460 + VAT. I'm not saying it'll be any better than the Sachs or Ohlins but if you're spending that on springs and valving I know which one would sell better down the line. Personally if I went aftermarket I'd probably go for Nitron, or Ktech if I could afford them.

I don't know if my Showa forks still have stock springs but I weigh over 100kg and they're acceptable for me. I think the spring rate is very close between Showa and Ohlins too.

Look at the zip tie on my forks (right click, View Image for bigger image). I know bottoming is more air gap than spring rate but this is running a fair sized air gap. Plus, this is mid corner where the bike is fairly compressed. You can see it's no where near the zip tie. Didn't dive on the brakes either.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 19:27
Sounds like your forks may have been looked at then?

I noticed the crap action on my 2002 model the first time I rode it,in fact it was quite a disappointment as I'd been led to expect something quite different.

Maxtons take on it matched exactly what I experienced and also explained the running wide in corners.

I decided to fix it myself,save some money and learn about cause and effect at the same time.

I ended up by flowing the valves,and altering the stacks which helped the handling quite a bit but I decided to stick with the springs as the bike was needed and I also ended up running a standard air gap which I'd decrease slightly if I ever get round to doing anything with that bike again.

Onto the 2008 model T which apart from radial caliper lowers runs the same forks ( apart from one 0.017" shim less in the comp stack) and that is even worse for some reason,unless I just got used to the better action on the Mille forks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 21:19
Possibly, but I doubt they'd had anything done to them. These forks were also used in Ducatis around the time where they were also well known for being very heavily sprung as stock. Soft in the rear, stiff in the front.

I mine do have heavier springs they must also have re-worked shims to give enough rebound damping to control it. Because my shock was a bit tired I found I had plenty extra rebound in reserve on the forks. I reduced damping there to match the underdamped rear. Maybe your 02 had lighter springs in it so it was undersupported/over damped?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 23:22
I doubt it as others have said the same thing regarding these forks.

I followed a previous member on here's suspension journey to improving them as we both had exactly the same complaints so I got some spare forks and got stuck in.

And both Maxton and Ktek will describe the same symptoms although in Maxtons case they actually did it on track with Performance Bike I think it was.  Difference was they just said what they could do to remedy it in broad terms rather than spilling the beans on how to achieve it yourself.

I think I did post the copy on here some years ago


And from yesterday

APRILIA RSV MILLE 2004 FRONT
The forks on the new Mille are upside down and have radial mounted brakes. The forks feel very notchy and harsh and kick off small bumps, this is because they have too much compression damping over small movements, however when you brake very hard you can feel the forks bottom out, this is because the springs in the forks are too soft, The other problem is that when you let go of the brake the forks spring back at you and the bike does not turn into the corner as well as it should, this is because there is not enough rebound damping. We increase the rebound damping and we fit harder springs to suit your rider weight and also to suit what type of riding you do. We also revalve the cartridges of the forks increasing the rebound damping to control the forks extension.Many people complain about the lack of feed back or feel front the front end, the conversion cures this problem and stops the front feeling vague.

Although all this has moved sideways from the OP's post which wasn't my intention at all.

The more I research suspension the more it becomes apparent that different things mean different things to different people and rarely does one setup suit all.
Which I suppose is why the factory buyers just specify the cheapest components they can that will do the job for most and leave it at that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 07:56
Ha yes, sorry Hangry.

No need for talk about anti squat and valving when all you asked for was a shop to service your shock. Think some of us just like to talk about it LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 10:38
Lol LOLnot a problem at all I'm learning lots about it all so fill ya boots people Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 12:10
Well just had a chat with mh racing seems nice chap now got to find out cost of post Approve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 11:38
Hey guys/girls how do you post a shock?probably sounds silly but cant get anyone to do it cuz it's got gas in itConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 12:04
It’s nitrogen which is inert, non toxic and in a tiny quantity. I wouldn’t even bother declaring it but your other option is to let the gas out if your concerned about sending it still in there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 13:05
Wrap it up and send it off, never had an issue when I sent mine off !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 13:24
Cheers guys I took it in my local post office n as I know the person they asked what it was then said no can do it's got gas in it so wont be doing that again lol.im not worried bout it so I'll just go to another one n send it
Thanks againThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 13:38
Dude 

Just post it my Hermes where you go into shop and print off label and stick it on. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 17:41
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Dude 

Just post it my Hermes where you go into shop and print off label and stick it on. 
 

I've posted everything via Hermes, basically if it gets damaged its not covered but if it's a " spring" insured to 250 and goes missing you should still be able to claim.  Pack well and it will be fine. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 19:49
Cheers people never heard of Hermes lol sounds like you need a cream for that Wink I had just finished a 12hour night shift this week so bit tired n weather bin nice sooo pist now.will try again next week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 20:47
Fair play enjoy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 13:15
Ouch my head seemed good idea yesterday lol.well shock all packed ready to go tomorrow Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 13:19
Originally posted by Hangry Hangry wrote:

Cheers people never heard of Hermes lol sounds like you need a cream for that Wink


So, Cornwall really is another world then!   LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 13:37
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Dude
Just post it my Hermes where you go into shop and print off label and stick it on. 

While I would do just that, the issue is the terms and conditions. Like RM and most couriers anything that is pressurised or that contains liquids in any form cannot be sent. For example Hermes T&C's state:


Prohibited Items are goods which Hermes will not carry
If any of the following items are found in our delivery network we will dispose of them. Please refer to our Terms & Conditions......

- Pressurised containers – Such Aerosols, Oxygen Tanks or Fire Extinguishers
- All liquids are prohibited – Including Gels, Creams, Pastes, Lotions and Oils
- Vehicle parts –  We also exclude any parts that contain liquids
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2020 at 13:50
Use DPD, they have far less restrictions. I recently sent 3 petrol tanks to Germany using them which I declared and they had no issue with it. 


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