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MORE ELECTRICAL GREMLINS FACTORY 04

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jools View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 16:54

Any advice of where to start would be much appreciated: as im running out of hair to pull!!!  If you could just be patient and  read it all through you,ll get the jest. I apologise in advance as its a long one.

Problem 1: First ive been having problems with the red immobilizer on the dash. The red light stayed on even when the bike was started up and ran. Sometimes  the red light would glow and go off ,but eventually it would go back to being completely red;  not flashing as it should .The bike ran perfectly but over a period of 5 days or so the battery would go flat. I replaced the battery and cleaned all the immobilizer connections on the left hand, under the side panel of the bike but the problem still exits.
 
Problem 2: Then after 2 weeks or so and akin with the the problems above the EFI warning sign and the red triangle came on the dash. Ive traced this problem to a faulty tip over sensor. Of which i have ordered a new one.
 
Problem 3: Today whilst sorting the tip over sensor another problem has started. I refitted the faulty tip over sensor; i started the bike and the imobilizer light was constant red, as it has been.  i travelled for 15 miles at a fairly descent speed to a garage to fill up with petrol. As i pulled up and stopped i turned the key to switch off the engine. The dash went blank as normal but the engine was still running. When you reved the engine the rev counter was still and the dash in "off mode". I could only stop the engine with the kill switch. The bike would start up but would not turn off with the key. I removed the faulty tip over sensor and as expected the EFI and triangle came back on the dash. The bike ran perfect as i made my way home.
 
Problem 4: When the bike was started and running on the way home, the red immobilizer light now goes out completely, but only when the bike is running as it should. But When the engine is stopped via the kill switch the red light comes back on and stays on.
 
Problem 5: As soon as the problem of the key switch not working properly the alarm now doesnt work. It is a Meta 275T V2. Normally it sets its  own immobilizer automatically with a single beep after 30 seconds with the alarm being activated and deactivated by a push fob. Of which you have to deactivate every time you want to start the bike. It has a red LED light to indicate that the alarm is working, this is not working and the push fob doesnt work. However The bike still starts and runs perfectly, its as though there is no alarm fitted
 
So, I can start and run the bike;
 
Icant turn off the bike via the key;
 
The alarm is now dead;
 
The red immobilizer light on the dash now goes off when the bike is running;
 
But It used to stay on before the key switch problem;
 
But now as soon as the bike is turned off by the kill switch the red immobilizer light stays on.
 
 
THANKS FOR READING THIS ANY COMMENTS OR HELP OF WHERE TO START. cHEERS jOOLS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 18:06
sounds like the usual duff immobilisor ecu problem.
 
Not the alarm immob but the aprilia one on the left inner panel. Replace or try and get it apart to repair water ingress damage.


Edited by Spoonz - 05 Jul 2009 at 18:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 18:25

Thanks Spoonz Do you Know if Can you replace this immobolizer, cant seem to see it on a parts list?? and is it as easy as bolt off and bolt on, by that ; will the new one match keys ecu etc??? Jools

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joe 90 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 19:02
What it is , condenstaion in the immoblizer, never try to dismantle the unit it will never go   back correct  again. It should sort it self out in the end. try not to wash the bike with water to much using the hoe.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tapmyhed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 20:00
Also sounds like a bad earth.  though Spoonz is probably more on it.  Cleaning out the immob you should use something like Isopropyl, but be careful as this can remove some types of conformal coating (this is the varnish like substance that is painted onto PCBs to protect from water/environment etc).  Have no idea what is in the immob, but a glowing/dimming red light on the dash could be alternative current flows due to corrosion across connectors......similar thing to losing an earth in a brake light cluster on a car, when the indicators blink so does the brake light....we've all seen it!  Electricity will take the easiest path to earth, if there is another path along the way, it'll pop down there too....usually corroded connectors or PCBs.......cats wee did a fab job of a video I once fixed for a mate (I'm not a video repair guy!)  once the wee was cleaned off and the PCB repaired, it worked again.
Anyway I'm waffling.
 
If in doubt, trace back where everything comes from, and that'll most likely be the cause indirectly or directly....ECU immob sounds about right....but have a look at all your earth points/straps around the frame/engine and battery too, just to be sure all the right earth returns are in....easy to check, multimeter from battery earth lead (disconnected) to engine, frame, and so on.
Good luck.
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joe 90 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 20:22
Had this problem with my 04, also affects the fuel injection sensors clicking on and off, unlikely to be the main frame earth as this would create more issues, just don't wash the area with a hose and allow the unit to dry out, this is what I did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2009 at 07:45

cHEERS BOYS, the immobolizer doesnt look that easy to split so im going to give this a try. I have a very powerful air blower that is used to dry carpets etc when they have got soaked in a plumbing leak etc. The only problem is getting the air into the immobilizer as its pretty much well sealed. Failing that idea i could use the mrs hairdryer? Failing that it looks a pretty expensive alternative !!!!!!!!!!

 Just out of curiosity how would i go about spliting the immobilizer ??
 
I always pay particular attention when im washing it, not too much water, however i think im now paying for riding through the wet summers and winters we had for the past couple of years. Jools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2009 at 12:39
If you do a search we did it a while back with someone that had the same problem as you.
I been involved with 2 and both had bad corrosion on the curcuit board causing the problem you have.
 
The problem is that they cover the inside of the caseing with a rubbery gloop that is designed to stop you taking it apart so it's far from easy.
Basically cut the immobilisor case open with a sharp knife and try to scrape the gloop off enough to expose the dodgy area resolder the joints and then reseal with silicone.
 
I posted a pic of a finished item a while back.
The drying option works for a while until the corrosion becomes bad enough that the fault is solid which is what happened with these others.
 


Edited by Spoonz - 06 Jul 2009 at 12:40
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joe 90 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2009 at 19:55
As it is a sealed unit the circuit board is supposed to be anti corrosive, so chances are that it will happen again unless you completely fill it with silicone, just another aprilia fault they have not fought through..FULLY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2009 at 22:03

Just An up date of whats happened, With Griffs advice ive tried a couple of things which have not worked, Apparently  ive also got other related problems which wont allow the immobilizer to be "fixed" which Griff says is Rare, Typical.  The only option is to replace !!!

In hindsight what i should of done is smothered the imobilizer and its ajoining cables and conections in grease or vasoline, not gone out in the rain, and moved to a dryer warmer country !!! Now Isnt that a good enough excuse to move or what ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2009 at 22:10
bypass the unit its simple, you don't really need the immobiliser, its makes the battery go flat, wont stop thief's lighting it into a back of a truck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2009 at 18:58
Hi Joe, i have bypassed the immobilizer and i still have the problems.  The route of the problem is that i have more than one fault with the immoblizer so replacing is the only cure. Im really not that bothered about immobilizer and alarms but i am bothered when i cant turn the engine off and theres red lights flashing on and off at will. You keep wondering with  electrical faults,  when is it going to knack  for good. A bit like Russian roulette. Give me a mechanical problem everytime!!! Jools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 18:11
Just an up date on this problem:: Ive replace the immobilizer, key switch and  antenna. Hey presto its fixed!!!  When i took the immobilizer off there was a tiny crack, hardly visable but its there, in the rubber goo around the bottom of the unit causing water ingress. To stop this in the future i have placed grease around the base of the new unit and taped it in insulating tape, cHEERS for all your input lads thanks. Jools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 18:15
Originally posted by jools jools wrote:

Just an up date on this problem:: Ive replace the immobilizer, key switch and  antenna. Hey presto its fixed!!!  When i took the immobilizer off there was a tiny crack, hardly visable but its there, in the rubber goo around the bottom of the unit causing water ingress. To stop this in the future i have placed grease around the base of the new unit and taped it in insulating tape, cHEERS for all your input lads thanks. Jools
 
 
Painful to your wallet but at least it's sorted ehh. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 22:08
Yep, but not as bad as i thought. If id bought the parts separate ie the imobolizer, main switch, keys, saddle lock, and and fuel filler cap the price is £542. The crazy thing is that if you buy the lock/security hardware  set which includes all the above, and i purchased the master key as well the price came to £280.  Crazy or what, not that im complaining though!! It makes a change for Aprilia parts to be reasonable for once. Thanks again Jools
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Accy Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2009 at 23:14
Just thought I'd let you know my experiences.
 
Bought a brand new RSV 1000R, picked up 1st March. It's been back to the dealers no less than 4 times now - won't start / turn over, although all lights correct. 1st and 2nd time wrongly diagnosed as Starter Motor relay problems, 3rd time a wiring loom problem and the latest - you guessed it - Immoboliser ECU.
 
The dealer has had the bike for 9 weeks out of the 24 weeks I've owned it. I've been out of the country for 5 weeks (working, not on the RSV) and only covered 812 miles in total.
 
Aprilia's response - ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING. Now you get the odd "rogue bike" I know, however it's how the dealer / manufacturer treats you that helps restore your faith.
 
Aprilia "will honour the remainder of the factory warranty" - well thanks a bunch - isn't that supposed to be part of the deal!
 
Would I spend £14k on an RSV4? No thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Accy Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2009 at 23:15
Just thought I'd let you know my experiences.
 
Bought a brand new RSV 1000R, picked up 1st March. It's been back to the dealers no less than 4 times now - won't start / turn over, although all lights correct. 1st and 2nd time wrongly diagnosed as Starter Motor relay problems, 3rd time a wiring loom problem and the latest - you guessed it - Immoboliser ECU.
 
The dealer has had the bike for 9 weeks out of the 24 weeks I've owned it. I've been out of the country for 5 weeks (working, not on the RSV) and only covered 812 miles in total.
 
Aprilia's response - ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING. Now you get the odd "rogue bike" I know, however it's how the dealer / manufacturer treats you that helps restore your faith.
 
Aprilia "will honour the remainder of the factory warranty" - well thanks a bunch - isn't that supposed to be part of the deal!
 
Would I spend £14k on an RSV4? No thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jools Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 20:54
Sorry to hear about your problems. It really shouldnt take that long, we are now in the 21st Century, apparantly.  Just to rub salt in the wound, i had a new ecu imoboliser the day after i ordered it so i really dont understand why it would take a main dealer that long. Anyway now your bikes up and running try and make up for lost time up. Your only excuse now is the English Summer!!!!!! Jools
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