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NickB View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 21:07
evening wise ones just had m7rr fitted in IOM currently with 36 psi in the front and 42 for the rear,anyone got preference? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 22:07
33, 36 for me but it's personal preference really.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 23:34
thanks for that spoonz is that for general road riding?Would you think riderweight may make a difference for tyre pressure with a heaviest rider getting more heat in the tyre and running slightly less pressure?I am about 13st fully kitted up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2018 at 23:59
Funny thing tyre pressures, I prefer something like 35f 34r but that's using Dunlop SportSmarts which use Ntec carcass's which are very stiff.

If you ask the tyre makers I think they will universally say 36f 42r for any bike,tyre or conditions either one up or 2

So theoretically if you have an accident running at anything other than those pressures it could be construed as having a vehicle in a dangerous condition possibly?

I always had this question on my old Sv1000s the tyre suppliers/fitters always said 36f 42r  and the sticker on the s/arm said 36f 36r. so who do you trust?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 11:18
Not sure about the Tuono but my Mille says 32f 36r on the swingarm which is what I run it at on the road.

The tyre manufacturer recommendations ignore any difference in bike weight, distribution and power. Aprilia's recommendations ignore any differences in carcass stiffness, compound etc.

It's got to be a compromise using either bike or tyre manufacturer recommendations but luckily I don't think it's that important on the road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 11:41
I don't either          But I can imagine an insurance company might think it grounds for not paying out on a claim given you are supposed to be within a couple of psi of recommended pressure to be considered legal Confused

Another thing to consider is that these tyres are cutting edge,these bikes are a last century product design that were never engineered for modern tyres.

I emailed Dunlop's PR dept when I first used the Smarties,they said categorically 36f 42r in ALL circumstances.

In fact the gist went along the lines of "  Listen mate,WE make the tyres,Aprilia only make bikes and is not  qualified to comment"  

Fair point I suppose when the manual for the (my) Mille was written back in 2002 and this would have been about 2010 I suppose

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 11:53
thanks for the advice all I will give them a go at 34&40 see how they feel 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 15:11
You fit the best you can afford and the 7RR is an excellent tyre, and does tend to work very well fitted to the V2s. I'm sure the recommended pressures for the Tuono are 36/40. I run 34/38, but as has been said , it's an individual thing and it's what works best for your style of riding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 19:14
31/35 on my Dunlop’s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ice-mille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 19:38
2000 mille M7rr 33/36
Shake’n bake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2018 at 23:02
appreciate the input fellas I think I have settled on 36 40 for me.My mate runs Dunlop on zx12r with 23 and 26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 01:44
Every days school day had no idea that your insurance company could void the policy if the pressures were not as the manufacturer intended. Ive always run 34F 36R out of habit more than anything else ( metzler M5s, M7RRs and currently Michelin 2CTs) but you've got me worried now think I'll pump them up a couple of PSI and see if i can notice any difference .
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 09:59
Not sure the insurance issue is that clear cut to be honest and I personally don't know anyone who's even had the pressures checked after an accident. Tread depth deffo.
It's pretty common for the tyre manufacturer to quote different pressures for the tyres to the bike manufacturer. So who is right legally ?

My Ducati is quoted by Ducati as 33 36 yet the tyre manufacturer says 36 42 for instance. The bike was as twitchy as hell at 36, 42. Unless your tyres were wildly out of spec I think they would have a hard time saying it was a contributing factor in an accident and grounds to dismiss a claim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 10:57
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Funny thing tyre pressures, I prefer something like 35f 34r but that's using Dunlop SportSmarts which use Ntec carcass's which are very stiff.

If you ask the tyre makers I think they will universally say 36f 42r for any bike,tyre or conditions either one up or 2

So theoretically if you have an accident running at anything other than those pressures it could be construed as having a vehicle in a dangerous condition possibly?

I always had this question on my old Sv1000s the tyre suppliers/fitters always said 36f 42r  and the sticker on the s/arm said 36f 36r. so who do you trust?

which Dunlops sportsmarts are you using? as for as I'm aware only the new sportsmart TT incorporates Ntec, it's been available on the sportmax range for some time GP Racer D211 /D212 and the latest D213GP Pro, but I'm pretty sure the sportsmart 2 and quaili 2 don't have it. 

As stated Ntec allows you to lower the pressure primarily for track use but it does create a grey area when recommending tyres pressures, Dunlops recommendation for trackday pressures is a frankly amazing 18 r 34 f and that's psi I haven't missed the decimal point out of the BAR setting, these pressures are for cold they rise abit when blankets are used but even the rec hot pressure is only 24r 36f. The front pressures are pretty normal but the rears, it took me quite a while and some double checking to believe you could run 18 PSI , that's virtually a flat tyre in my book.  All this is of course for track use and if you ask Dunlop their recommendation for road use their response is 'refer to manufacturers handbook'  so just as you mention they won't go against manufactures  recommendations  so in the case of an accident they can't be said to have recommended a tyre pressure roughly 1/2 that recommended by the bike maker.   So obviously it's up to the rider to make the decision re optimum tyre pressure which with these particular tyres as got to be way lower then Aprilia recommends, for road use I couldn't bring myself to actually use 18PSI settling on 25 cold and amazingly it works.   

I've used both the GP Racer D211 and D212 (Dunlop call them 'easy racing' ) and they are equal to the ubiquitous Supercorsa SC for dry grip  with slightly better wet grip (mind you wet grip is poor on both) surprisingly they don't wallow about as you'd expect given the low pressure in fact they are a fantastic tyre for v fast road and trackday uase the only fly in the attainment is the RSV absolutely destroys them, I did 3.5K last year (Sunday riding no commuting etc) and used 2 fronts and 3 rears (2x D211 1x D212 ) and that's them down to the canvas I was getting double that with supercorsas. 
The current rear as done 1k so for this yr and is almost ready for replacement so while i really like the tyre I can't justify (or afford) these wear rates so as a replacement I'll be looking at using the new sportsmart TT which I'm hoping will have similar performance but with less wear.

I suppose the motto is modern tyres are now so  unique and focused that manufacturers pressure recommendations are largely irrelevant and you really need to set these with deference to the tyre type /make rather than the bike, but in the case of an accident there is a definite risk that an insurance assessor may flag up pressures that differ from the manufacturers recommendations, then it could become an argument with the ins company who will use any excuse to worm out of paying up. 
          
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 11:23
The original SportSmarts were marketed as Ntec as their main selling point,the SportSmart Squared (2's) less so, some people took that to mean they were conventional especially on the front.

The second gen front was certainly a major departure from gen1 profile wise in that it was much narrower and almost round with almost non existent shoulders. In fact I first though I'd been supplied with a 110 as the tread just rolled round almost to the rim.

So much so I ran out out rubber and tried cornering on the rim at Donnington due to lack of feel Embarrassed




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damo46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 11:43
Good review in PB this month on sport tyres, on the road test the M7rr came out tops, track tested next month, riders were not aware of what tyre was on so a good honest way of getting them scored. They ran 36f 36r as they said this is the pressures they run most of the time on all bikes.

I have a 2004 tuono, the manual says 2.5 bar (36psi) front, 2.8 bar (40psi) rear , same pressure stated for solo rider and also rider and passenger in manual. Just had a look at the sticker Aprilia have on the swingarm and it has the same as the manual for passenger and rider but for solo rider 2.3 bar (33psi) front and 2.5 bar (36psi) rear Confused

Personally I think 36 for the front is ok but 40 on the rear would be a bit too hard, its obviously safe but down to preference at the end of the day, if I ran 40 on the rear with the bumby roads around here the bike would not feel too good Wacko


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 11:48
That was my take on it too.   36 solo,40 pillion

Like Spoonz says " The bike was twitchy as hell at 36 42"  

Also if you set those pressures cold then they would be much higher when nice and hot.

I suppose it depends on what is considered ' wildly out of spec'      Twitchy as hell would fit the bill for me,as would 'feels heavy to turn'  at the other extreme Big smile

I think that Ntec is really only for track use and blurs the picture when pressures are discussed for road use, ALTHOUGH well soft pressures will work you have to be really caning them for it to make sense.

I'm using the Smarties 2's on the T at the mo,purely because I had the almost unused one removed from the Mille after Donnington hanging on the wall and as I wasn't going to be tracking the T  that meant I only had to buy one tyre.

Dunlop wouldn't be my first choice for road tyres now


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 12:49
when I first put Dunlop sport smarts on I found the bike was so firm because of the stated harder side walls , so I dropped psi and also let off suspension back and mostly front until I was happy and it seems to work for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 12:52
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

The original SportSmarts were marketed as Ntec as their main selling point,the SportSmart Squared (2's) less so, some people took that to mean they were conventional especially on the front.

The second gen front was certainly a major departure from gen1 profile wise in that it was much narrower and almost round with almost non existent shoulders. In fact I first though I'd been supplied with a 110 as the tread just rolled round almost to the rim.

So much so I ran out out rubber and tried cornering on the rim at Donnington due to lack of feel Embarrassed





you're right just found an old review of the original Sportmax sportsmart and it does indeed have the same Ntec construction as the GP racer D211, but looking at the newer sportsmart (sportsmart 2/ sportsmart max etc) there's no mention of Ntec in the tyre specs?? only the new sportsmart TT lists Ntec,  so not sure if they dropped Ntec and have now re-introduced it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 15:03
Originally posted by snowman snowman wrote:

so I dropped psi and also let off suspension back and mostly front until I was happy and it seems to work for me.


I think you hit the nail on the head there. Tyre pressures are about getting the tyre to the correct operating temperature given the ambient temp and road surface/temp (As well as how agressively you ride). The suspension is meant to take care of road surface condition and ride. Relying on the tyre sidewall for suspension is a recipe for disaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 15:28
It obviously can/does make a big difference ,even between different brands of tyre that are outwardly the same stated size.

I watched a Dave Moss video on Youtube a while back where he goes through the differences and what he needed to do to set up the bike for the new tyres.
In fact here it is


and

 

These RS10's coincidentally were one of the best tyres I've ever used,the Mille ate the rear though.

I still have the RS10 on the front but now mated to an Avon 3d Ultra Extreme on the rear as I thought it worth a lap or two to see if there was any weird effects before paying to have the matching Ultra Extreme scrub mounted.

Absolutely no difference that I could find even in extreme Spanish heat so that pairing stayed on for the rest of the days there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 16:07
Getting away from the original question a bit here but it might be worth airing.

Anyway I tried the RS10's when I got the very tyres that Jezza McWilliams had taken round Rockingham for 6 laps during a tyre test in a magazine at a bargain price and and I felt happy on them straight off,far nicer feeling than the Dunlops I thought.

Fast forward to needing a new pair for an upcoming track week and got let down by the supplier last minute so Markrsvr15 kindly overnighted me a pair of Avon 3D Ultra Extreme scrubs to try as he really rated them. And I can see why,I really rate them to Thumbs Up

Next time I needed some his supplying rider had switched to Dunlops as that was the new control tyre so he bought some scrubs went out on those at Cadwell I think it was and absolutely hated them as they behaved so differently.

Obviously the bike needed setting up far differently as can't believe a new model track  tyre would be as bad as he found so it just goes to show that these modern tyres could need some considered setting up and don't always immediately give their best without some suspension and pressure tweaking.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 16:08
Yeah, I've watched a lot of Dave's videos and he always harps on about not expecting the tyres to act as suspension but to set the pressure to suit the ambient and of course to suit the tyre characteristics. He regularly makes the point that some tyres have soft sidewalls (Pirelli to name one) that need higher pressures than some others or they will overheat due to the flexing of the sidewalls.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j180 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2018 at 21:51
I had M7rr on my Tuoldo and loved them. On the V4 Tuono I'm not as happy with them, I've tried a few different combinations but found 33/39 seems to work best. Not sure what to try next.
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