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JMH's 1060 Big Bore project |
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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Bill R and JMH, sorry I didn't mean to post and run (how rude! )
Thanks for the pics Bill It's one of those things that I can't do until everything is in front of me. Richard (Dog78 on here /Virgil on AF1) and myself are hoping to get the G2 motor in over the next few months. I have a PCV and Autotune 300, so need to weld the bosses in the headers at the same time. Loving the pics of your TL on the No Words Allowed thread. Did you do the windowed clutch cover yourself? JMH this has been a brilliant thread, tons of information and great pics. I doff my cap. Hyva Suomi! Kiitos! |
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Question everything.
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Bill R
Premium Member Joined: 26 Sep 2014 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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Np on the pics, happy to share.
Re, the clutch cover, no I am not that talented. The cover is a Hinkle, made by a German member on the TL Zone many years ago. The inner ring which is a update to the design was made by another member Vandriver (USA). The clutch basket is from a 06 GSXR 750 mated to the TL ring gear, made by Sam Matthewman (UK) also another member. Well published in Performance Bike mag, for his wrenching and modding on TL's. Finishing off with a GSXR STM slipper clutch. All these parts a hard to come by today. I am lucky enough to have them for both my TLS's.
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Rides, Black 2001 Mille R/RR 1102 BB Track Bike, 2 Black Suzuki 1998 TL 1000S's
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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A picture while it still is in one piece. The OZ wheels have slicks on them so not in the picture.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Dyno run results from last Friday. The front cylinder cough is still there but now a bit more disturbing. The bike had the same rear tyre, chain but one tooth larger front sprocket.
What has been changed so far: Normal plugs to Iridium Short RSV stacks Another coil tried New injectors What next? Burn a chip from Gab and get rid off the PCIII? Hotter plugs? Only to front cylinder? Else: Changes, checks? I'll be checking the front cylinder plug wiring during the winter. Map with less advance as it has been used all summer Map with more advance at least with 100% throttle (gab gave me this info) Comparison |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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PCIII is out, Gabro bespoke chip in. New fuel pump and start/stop relay in. Will get to the dyno room in the next two weeks. I am also planning a stage 2.0 for next winter. Already got OEM billet inlet cams to be used in the exhaust position but more about that later. I will update the dyno charts when I have them.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Time to close this case:
The hick up is gone although you can see something odd in the AFR. Changes over the winter: PCIII out, Gabro bespoke chip with the PCIII map in. Different ECU New fuel pump and start/ stop relay Things affecting the run: One tooth less on the rear sprocket Unused chain (rear tyre was the same) I think the ECU was the key here. Should the hick up come back I will solder a resistance to the extra front cylinder coil wires instead of double wiring the coil. So, The run This run vs. spring 2018 with the hick up and as a reminder where we started Summer's almost here so let the Aprilia riding begin. One of the first places I plan to visit is this very small bridge that actually is a jump. Then some track days. As for future plans, there is a stage 2.0 coming with different cams and some porting. Probably next winter? Should I continue the story here or start a new thread? |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
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nothing wrong with running it from here or indeed starting a second one.
Enjoyable all the same. Results are looking good
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Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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OK. Let us keep rubber side down and all the rods within the engine casings and the story might continue.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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BMEPdoc
L Plates Joined: 07 May 2019 Location: California USA Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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I've just joined this site and one of the first threads I saw was this one -
Seeing you here JMH doesn't surprise me at all though. Good numbers - particularly the torque on your build. Must be a hoot indeed. Looking forward to contributing as well as absorbing, of course. -doc
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Cheers! First track outing is close. This Sunday. A week ago we got somes slush and temps were around 4-5 degrees. A no go for me. Now the forecast says +17C. Happy days.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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A quick picture update: |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Don't you have a KTM for this type of stuff Good photos!
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Owen
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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^ The KTM either jumps higher or sinks deeper. Wouldn't fit in the picture.... |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JimmyV4
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Aug 2018 Location: Ipswich Status: Offline Points: 896 |
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loverley juberley
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Let me update here as well. I've put new cam chains, billet intake cams to exhaust position and Kent APR03 billet cams to intake position. Next step is to time the cams again, to 110-114. As for the cam sprocket bolts I plan to use 2 mm thick washers from Gabro and 14 mm bolts, or special D-shaped where the straight part of the D follows the cam axis radius if those come out good. Then it is dyno time and I need to use the PCIII again. At the moment I have a custom chip from Gabro made on the basis of prior PCIII tuning. Let us see if we can breach the 140 barrier. Oh, plan is to measure piston to valve clearance as well, with a special tool. Gab took a look a things as I earlier this fall sent him one Kent Cam for profile measurement. He got the following results: i did 2 tests using a 04 small valve RR head, fitted with Kent intake and a 04 intake at exhaust, timed 35-67/58-26 (106-106)
#1 - 102mm flat dome piston/cylinder: valve to piston clearances are 1.60mm intake and 2.50mm exhaust
#2 - 97mm stock piston: 1.80mm intake and 2.30mm exhaust I've used 106-106 instead of 110-115 to check a
very critical timing. You should find about 2mm/3mm clarance
intake/exhaust on your motor when fitting those cams at correct timing Given the AP workshops big bore pistons from Omega are similar to OEM ones things are looking safe.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Forgot, I put brand new Adige friction plates to the slipper. I will probably order a new set of Barnett springs from Ap workshops. I had only three of those in place but one was found broken when disassembling the clutch and I do not have a full set in case I need all six. Strange: |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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That is one beautiful bike, my compliments to you sir. You made a wonderful job of it. Loads of hard work put in but the paint job is beautiful and has a special motor to match.
Well I am back on the Aprilia soon, so you lot will be seeing a lot more of me again. I sometimes wish that I had gone ahead with the 1127 but after building my superstock R1 and riding it at Almeria, I really love the thing and understand it. The power is amazing but I long to ride my Gen 2 factory again. It was a lot less physical than the superstock but just as rewarding. She has been under cover for nearly a year and half now with one small outing for an mot. But your bike Jim is a great accomplishment and great credit to you for your perseverance to get it so right. A brilliant end product. I may still one day do a 1103 but never get the time. I am back in Almeria in the end of April for six days and have to work out the clutch problem on the R1. So my time with other things are taken up. Anyway its nice to be back and see what people have done since I have been away.👍
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cwp
Moto GP Alien Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Location: mid wales Status: Offline Points: 1688 |
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Welcome back Rich mate
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born ugly what's your excuse!!
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Cheers. It is not done yet ... dickin' about with Kent cams and timing.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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The special tool we tried to order to measure the valve to piston
clerance never arrived. Well, the next plan was to measure "raw
clearance" without the cams, time the cams and measure valve lift at the
same crank positions and do the math. This way making a tool is a lot
easier as the cams are not in the way.
In case it turns out I am well within the limits on the rear I won't bother measuring the front. Below the raw clearance results. Timing will take place next weekend. Also a video of the Spezial Tool. ---------EX--------IN -15-----8,0----------- -10-----7,2----------- -5------6,8----------- 0-------6,6--------6,1 5-------------------6,2 10-----------------6,6 15-----------------7,4 |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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rsvwalt
Moto GP Alien Joined: 17 May 2016 Location: mansfield Status: Offline Points: 346 |
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Amazing , how did you gain so much knowledge??
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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^
Reading AF1 forum and talking to mates.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Timing done with 2 mm lift. Kent APR03 on inlet and OEM inlet on exhaust.
IN: 15-55 -> 110 EX: 51-5 -> 113 The piston to valve clearance seems to be large on the exhaust side. Minimum 3,6 at 10-5 degrees BTDC. The inlet is on the tight side. 1,9-2,0 mm 5-15 degrees ATDC. Still OK though. This means I would not go any tighter than 108-110 with these inlet cams. |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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No fluids on my shoes... at least from the bike. The idling sounds very
funny with the new timing and cams. Dyno maybe in two weeks. "Need" to
change tires and bearings on three wheels before that.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Looks like there's a bug in my engine too. 133 and not making power low down. Dyno guy said felt like it was missing compression. Petrol was only 2 months old so that should be OK. The fuel map was very rich low down and part throttle but almost no changes higher up and more throttle. Investigation will start. Is it a timing cock up, cams doing it, oval cylinders etc, piston ring broken etc. etc. One option to put in old cams, time the engine and make a new run... stay tuned.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Issue found: I have apparently been sloppy with the tapers when installing the flywheel. It has moved a bit retarding the ignition. The key is done. That is not an issue. New one is 3 €. The flywheel I would not put back unless pointed with a gun. Not an issue as Griff, ebay or my spare motor can help. The key here (pun intended) is to see if I can clean the crank taper and fix the key groove so that the new key sits happily in its place while torquing the new flywheel. Hey, it made 133 bhp with bad ignition timing!!!! Anyway, the pics:
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Well, it runs. I got a good used flywheel from Griff at AP workshops together with the gaskets (I opened both sides). |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Nice recovery In theory the key is only for location and shouldn't be taking any rotary load I'm guessing you lapped the flywheel to the shaft before bedding the key? Heating the flywheel before fitting was a nice touch,hopefully it won't need removing anytime soon |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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1. My thoughts exactly 2. I did 3. I suppose I could have removed the flywheel bolt now to reduce weight? I bloody hope it stays together now.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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