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JMH's 1060 Big Bore project |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Posted: 06 Sep 2017 at 09:00 |
Time to start this thread. Below a cunning plan plus acquired items and to be acquired items: |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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The idle adjust / cold start mech swaps over from gen1 to gen2 throttle bodies
Fit gen2 conrods they are stronger Are you going slotted cam sprockets ? 106/109? Smaltmoto have tss for 629 euros |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Timing will be checked before the decision to slot the cams. Kämna Ducati has also TSS at roughly the same price.
I will stick to Gen1 rods as the change to Gen2 would apparently include some hassle with lubrication of the big end. Additionally the Gen1 rods seem to be good for 200+ hp as the local Gen1 Turbuono has showed. |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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Edit...found it |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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That is it.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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snowman
Premium Member Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Location: Romsey area Status: Offline Points: 1384 |
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Not a very nice looking bike IMO ????
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Af1
Moto GP Alien Joined: 29 Dec 2016 Location: Herts Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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Ideal bike if you only have one leg ! Surprised it never caught on... |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Acquired:
Gen 2 Heads Gen 2 TB 57 mm intake funnels Gen 2 down pipes Edwards airbox lower half Adapters to the jets PCIII TSS slipper clutch JSPerformance silicone hoses & clips Valve stem seals, cutch cover gasket, generator cover gasket 1 457,28 € To be acquired: Gabro chip 1060 BigBore kit with head & bottom gaskets and pistonsUpdated parts list. Still moaning about not having editing rights |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Disassembly could commence in mid/ late October.
As for the TB I have a question. The "choke" can be set on the Gen2 TB but did that one have the idle adjusting knob on the right hand side of the engine?
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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Yes r/h side. Swap your Gen 1 fast idle mechanism over onto the gen 2 tb's.
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Question everything.
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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about 30 mins work tops to swap the mech. over take a look at some pics in this thread...but once you have the 57's and 51's in front of you it will all become clear |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Does anyone have pictures of the weld jobs how they have mated the Gen2 downpipes with the Gen1 2-2 Akra?
Is there enough length to make the Gen2 downpipe round so that you do not need to modify the Akra system?
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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I spoke to Griff about this very briefly a while back.
He mentioned about getting some flanges made up and I presumed for this purpose, as I'm wanting to run a Gen 1 Arrow system, on a Gen 2 1060 motor I've got (going in a Gen 1). I'll be speaking to him hopefully in the next few days, so I'll make a note to ask him about it again buddy. If not I'll just be cutting some Gen 2 headers and welding those in. |
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Question everything.
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Cheers.
Btw. Have not followed image hosting possibilities since photobucket shafted us. Are there any FOC ones left?
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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I've been using Flickr since PhotoBucket pulled the plug. But make sure your settings on there are set to private, if you use it, or people can look through all your pics. PB ruined the whole thread about my bike. It would be easier to start another thread than try to replace everything
Better and easier still, You don't need an account with image hosters, you can post direct from your pc on here. If you click on the white arrow, 2nd from the right at the top, when making a post or replying to one, it takes you to the full reply editor -you will see a little green tree on the top row, 4th from the right. Click on that to upload any photo's direct from your pc. You might have to reduce some in size, as I think the maximum size is 2mb |
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Question everything.
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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^Cheers.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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j180
Moto GP Alien Joined: 18 Jan 2014 Location: scotland Status: Offline Points: 1100 |
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Postimage is also good for sharing to forums.
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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JMH, I've just remembered, you need to be a premium member to post from your pc (I think).
I think it's only about 5 quid. It gives you access to the online manuals as well. If not, I can only say Flickr, as that's the only one I've used other than Photo*ucket. |
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Question everything.
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Engine dropped to the builder today. Dissasembly will commence 21.10.
I'll be there. By the way, do you know if Griff has slotted cam gears? Secondly, if/ when the Gen2 heads need straightening how much can be afforded?
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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Sure there is a thread by Micah or amaurai on af1 regarding skimming the heads |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Online Points: 16145 |
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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apriliapista
Moto3 racer Joined: 03 Feb 2016 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Af1 sells slotted cam sprockets ,
But it's easy to do yourself! |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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^
I knew that but remembered that the price was higher than what it is. $100 plus postage when I give my old ones in return (well, I have three sets anyway at the moment). Next to this mate of mine doing the engine job with me lives a guy with a shop and he does pretty much what he wants so my mate will ask him about the gears at the same time he asks about straightening the heads. That would be the place to do the exhaust as well as it looks to me it is best to have the engine in place for that job.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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apriliapista
Moto3 racer Joined: 03 Feb 2016 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Yes I remember it was a lot of money ( not necessarily expensive?). If you have 3 sets just slot all and sell 2 of them, I'm sure there's members out there who needs a set.
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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Information needed on Gen2 correct valve spring length:
The measurement on the used head gives vs. [manual] Inner: 39 mm vs. [40,9 mm] Outer: 42 mm vs. [43,4 mm] Is the spec in the manual correct, the manufacturing done on Monday or what is going on? New springs would set me off ~500 €. Would need 16 of them. Does aynone have an insight? |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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It appears the wear limits for the Gen1 valve springs are the same so maybe they would fit, or?
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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^
Update on valve springs. The measured ones are going in. Advice from Micah/ Gabro received so good to go regarding that. Then... The barrels are on their way to Griff at Aprilia Performance UK and I'll have a small update post to do with pics. Before I have the time to do this I would have a question(s).
The conrod bolt tightening instructions can be found in the old manual, which I have. It says to use new bolts every time. The engine will be split to check the gearbox so that it does not sh*t itself with more power on the tap so at the same time the big end bearings could be checked as well. OK, have you engine builders done this every time (they are ~30 €/ each)? Is it a normal procedure to check them in a build like this in Rotax engines? After all, the engine is 70 tkm. The crank bearings and such will be left alone. |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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New bolts at every use. That is the way to go with V2s.
Bugger.
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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JMH
Moto GP Alien Joined: 16 Jan 2017 Location: Paimio, FIN Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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As said the barrels are out and on the way to Griff. The old ones looked good as new after 70 tkm.
This conversion has been covered here before but the pictures are gone due to Photobucket shafting us. So, about the heads. The camshaft position sensor Gen1 vs. Gen2 in the front cylinder Inside the valve cover vs. outside the valve cover Exhaust cam gear vs. intake cam gear Pin inside the gear vs. pin outside the gear As the sensor is inside you need the Gen1 valve cover as it has a slot for it. Additionally, the camshaft support in Gen1 has threads for the sensor and the Gen2 one has only holes. So you need threads made in it. There is an X mark between the two holes in the support. The Gen2 head makes contact with the valve cover so some machining is needed to take material out. The exact amount is known when the heads come from the shop. Additionally, a slot needs to be machined so that the cam sensor wiring can be taken out the same way as in Gen1 heads. For the rear cylinder both Gen1 & Gen2 covers go. As for slotting the cam gears we have decided to slot the Gen1 gears for the front cylinder and the Gen2 gears for the rear cylinder. This is because of the pin location in the gear. No need to take it out then. Piston ring end cap was a question but Griff at Aprilia Performance is able to hone this as our final build spec was given to him. The piston pin offset is no worry. The OEM pistons have a 1mm offset to the rear of the engine but the kit pistons are symmetrical. Some small worries as well. As the clutch was taken out it was seen that the one of the end plates on the springs behind the outer basket was cracked. Everything was still there, though. I have another used set of those springs and end plates so it is a matter of putting together the tightest package I can get out of those. Oh... and the divot pins were pretty tight in the heads and in the cylinder and some of them in the heads got a bit mullered so I ordered new ones. 8 pcs. I guess, this is it for now. More in November when we take the next push. |
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Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different. |
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