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HELP! My Forza don't work!

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jonjenk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HELP! My Forza don't work!
    Posted: 16 May 2013 at 22:28
Right...

I recently bought a 2004 Tuono Gen1. 10,000 miles and proper looked after. FSH and all standard. 

I've had a raft of RSV's before so I knew what I was getting.

I got the bike home (in the van) and set about giving it a once over. It still had the airbox restrictor, Exhaust restrictor and the map 2 wire was still intact. It has 16/42 gearing so not totally standard.

I did the usual mods and went for a ride.... This bike was the smoothest RSV I have ever ridden. Silky smooth drive from nowt to the top end. Bliss. I did 800 miles in two days and grinned for the following week. ACE BIKE.

Now, this is where it goes a bit pear shaped....

It wasn't loud enough.

In my wisdom I bought an open can and link pipe. I kept the standard filter and airbox so it was just a pipe. I knew it would run sh*te.. so on the advice of you lot I ordered a Forza 100 chip from a guy called Ed. I hadn't even started the bike up with the standard chip. Forza chip arrived today, I slid it in as quick as a quick thing (12 o'clocked the trim screws too) and have just been out on the bike for a try....

What a bag'o'sh*te! I've wrecked me lovely bike! It's awful. I've had mowers that run better!

Problems:

1) Will not idle smoothly. Bike 'pulses' at tickover (although starting it from cold was easier)

2) Anything under 4500revs on a neutral throttle (ie not accelerating or decelerating, just held constant) the bike will not run smoothly. It surges and pulses and has a rodeo bull thing going on. This disappears as soon as I open the throttle but that means I can't hold a constant speed unless the engine is spinning over 4500. Not good at all in town.

3) I now have a big flat spot between 5000-6000 revs. I honestly thought it was broke the 1st time I went through it! 

4) There is no more 'go' to the bike, in fact I'd say possibly less. The 3rd gear wheelies you lot talk about would not happen on this bike as it is. With the standard can and chip it would easily wheelie in 1st and sometimes in 2nd if cresting a rise....it won't come up in 1st now...

5) I've stalled the bloody thing three times tonight. Never stalled one of these before. Stalled a badly behaved caponord more than once in the past but not an RSV.

6) Cornering is a bugger now as it feels like I have less control over the motor. It's only a feeling as nothing sinister happened but I felt like it was either going to fall over or take off and spit me over a hedge...

7) When i backed off the throttle into bends there seems to be less engine braking. This wasn't because i was going faster either. I used the brakes for the 1st time this eve!

8) I had no popping on the overrun at all but when i stopped at lights or a junction I did smell a slight whiff of un-burnt fuel....which makes me think it may be running rich?

Overall it was rubbish. Can any of you enlighten me as to why I now have a dog of a bike? Am I missing something? Help me out or the can and chip gets the ebay treatment!

Cheers, Jenk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparky6800 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 22:40
I had very simular problems mate, co and tb set up was impossible the bike was a pig!! Bought a pc3 in the end advanced map bikes amazing now. Lots of peeps have used the chips with success, guess they don't suit all bikes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 22:45
I was advised to go down the chip route as it contains improved ignition mapping as well as a revised fuel map...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 23:22
bump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 23:37
Give Ed a shout. He has his own section on here and once he sees you have an issue i  sure he can help. Only thing you did was install the chip and trim the pots so it will be one or other. I knew nothing about trimming pots on my old gen 1 so i just dumped a chip and can on. Had no issues. They do all smell a bit of fuel as rsv's run rich in any trim. And lastly i could only lift the front on mine in first by cracking the throttle or a helpful crest. Will be frustrating but give Ed a chance to see and get back to you as it may be an easy fix. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 23:40
Cheers Wig...have sent him PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 06:47

so just put the standard chip back in and let ed sort you with a refund or other chip



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pauloblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:37
pretty sure the FR100 chip is designed to work with open airbox and can. so with the standard airbox its gonna be struggling. have u got the baffle removed from the new can u bought? this will help, iv got one of eds chips on my gen 1 tuono, open airbox kit from griff. and a mivv can with baffle out and it runs smooth as anything. I'm sure ed will help u out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Supertedlover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:39
My bike ran better with a standard chip.  The modified chip i used refused to allow trim pots to be adjusted.  Now where did I put those other ones.......
moved from the dark side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 13:37
I am not in any way suggesting that the chip is not what it should be. I haven't seen one negative comment regarding the Forza 100 chip. I just think that I must have missed something along the way as the bike is running very poorly and that's not what I expected. Perhaps an open airbox is the way but I only wanted it to be a little noisier in the first place so may just go back to standard (after all, Apriliia should know what they're doing...right?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 13:57
Originally posted by jonjenk jonjenk wrote:

after all, Apriliia should know what they're doing...right?
 
Not always, they have made some shocking fcuk ups before but in the eeprom case no.

That said the stock fueling etc on any bike is a compromise setting as they have to conform to eu regs on emissions and also factor in fuel consumption, noise etc etc.

An aftermarket chip can ignore all of that and focus on the best power delivery and a good one will beat a standard chip hands down every time. I have not used a Forza one but enough have to make me think your issue is a rogue chip or a setup issue on the bike.

The dial the co settings to xx o'clock has always been a personal hate of mine. About as scientific as saying stick your finger in a power socket to determine if the power is on. Whatever chip you fit get the bike setup after if you want it to run right. That goes for your standard chip too as now you have moved the trimmers that will be wrong too to some degree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 14:05
Yes, that's what I was thinking also. I made a note of the positions though and one was at 11 and one was at three o'clock so I'm guessing I can just return them to their original positions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 14:41
Originally posted by jonjenk jonjenk wrote:

Yes, that's what I was thinking also. I made a note of the positions though and one was at 11 and one was at three o'clock so I'm guessing I can just return them to their original positions?

Worth a shot dude. I would try that. If its still nasty put the standard chip back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 19:56
Have you contacted Ed???.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mad73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 21:37
im sure ed has gone new York today long weekend I think so u prob wont get a reply , but im sure he will sort u out when he gets back
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vinnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 22:40
Ha you ain't alone, fitted mine yesterday & set up 3.5 front & rear & big hole in the mid range, will wait & see wot Ed says , but I shall stick my Dr Rossi back in untill resolved, just got a renny airbox & remus open cans, & run well before, just wanted to smooth it out a bit 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 23:52
Right....update:

Took the bike to a very nice man over at Tamworth called Griff. Had a tune up and...hey presto, bike runs like it should again. Simples.

Off out tomorrow to test fully but 1st impressions are good. The bike now pulls cleanly from as low as 3000 and goes like stink at the top.

Still a bit of pulsing when 1st going from an open to a closed throttle but nothing to freak out about.

Still smells a bit rich so I'll keep an eye on economy too.

All in all I think I preferred it as standard but it does sound good now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Philly46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 23:58
Was this the Tuono in yesterday with the small GPR exhaust getting a TB sync?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 00:14
Originally posted by jonjenk jonjenk wrote:

Right....update:

Took the bike to a very nice man over at Tamworth called Griff. ]
what a coincidence the guy that runs this forum is called Griff....mmmmmnnnn


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 10:03
Great news. Glad its running better. I always find they smell a bit rich on the gen 1 models. Even fully set up ones. Enjoy it dude
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 12:10
Yup this forum has taught Griff everything he knows and a shed load of stuff he'd rather forget !!

Glad its sorted......Clap

Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

Originally posted by jonjenk jonjenk wrote:

Right....update:

Took the bike to a very nice man over at Tamworth called Griff. ]
what a coincidence the guy that runs this forum is called Griff....mmmmmnnnn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 13:52
The moral of the story seems to be....when fitting a modified chip which could have base settings far away from Aprilias burn is that they DO need setting up properly and not just plugging it in and expecting miracles.

Given the shocking spread of cam timing figures from standard built engines it says a lot about them that they all work as well as they do anyway.

Think about it,if a chip is burnt for optimised (or mid range) timings and you plug it into an engine that has been set up to run it's fueling/ign maps with cam timing that could be 14o !!! out from that (and that is not unusual apparently) then you can't really expect instant results every time.

I think I'll optimise the cam timing and uprate the ex system before I bother fitting mine then get Griff to set it up.

If it then needs further work it'll be a PC and down the road to Moto-Corse for Tony to do an individual cylinder super tune on his dyno.

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Looking forward to the next track day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForzaApriliaRacing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2013 at 14:49
Just see this link

Having your TB sync and CO set after fitting my EPROM
Makes the bike run perfect

Some people get lucky and fit the EPROM
And it runs ok without any fuss

But in an ideal world you tune the EPROM to the bike
The only EPROM issues I get is when people fit them to daughter boards

I base set my bike here at home
To my own custom EPROM
I thought the bike ran ok
I was aware it was rich

After Griff reset the TB and CO
It was miles better
Better MPG crisper more responsive etc etc

Sparky is the only guy that could not get on with the bike
This may have been the place trying to tune it ?

As Kiwi has the same year bike and mods
And he is over the moon

But Scott also knows how to set his Aprilia up

The standard EPROMs are really shat
In terms of performance

Get the bike setup then see what you think
Night and day I promise you

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You are pissing in the wind without the right equipment
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonjenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2013 at 19:25
Went out yesterday. Did 300 miles around Wales. Mixed bag really. Bike is good on OR off the throttle. ...but not great going from one to the other. Fly up to a bend on the gas, back off, tip in, start to feed in the power gently rolling on....and it's right there that it's not so good. Very hesitant jerky power right where you need it to be at its smoothest. (Cranked over mid bend). On the throttle its ace with lots of smooth acceleration from 3000 to the top. No dip at 5000 either. Gonna speak to an expert from Tamworth. ..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2000r1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2013 at 20:50
Are you saying then that the chip does not work efficiently without a TB/Co set up & unless you know how to set them up. Also are you saying the person that tried to set up Sparky`s bike does not know what he is doing.?
 
I know the guy that set up Sparky`s bike & showed him the difference between the two chips in front of his own eyes. The chip has also been tried in two different bikes with the same results with two different spec of bike, coincidence?
 
The bike was taken to an official Aprilia franchise dealership,he has been working on Aprilia`s for over 10 years and has worked with Griff very closely & has known Griff for over twenty years,so Griff know what his ability & knowledge level is,if you are unsure you can always ask him!!
 
Sounds like a duff chip,not the first,won`t be the last. Customer not happy so the situation needs to be resolved.
 
Just saying
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 179club Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2013 at 20:55
I got chip of ed. Bike runs rich and pulses on start up. More go than standard chip and not jerky on/off throttle. I seem to get a power surge @ around 8000rpm to 9500rpm  bit like an inl4 as for better fuel consumption not sure but goes like stink so happy with it.Oh! and that sound track. I hope when you fitted yours you did not touch chip with bare fingers as this can put a static shock on chip and possibly ruin it. I wore latex gloves.  Trim pots @ 12 o'clock. hope this helps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2013 at 12:58
Hoping to put my new chip from Ed into the bike this weekend. This could prove interesting.....Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2013 at 14:16
Remember to get the best out of these you really need a co and tb set up

Some are lucky and it's plug and play others not so


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ForzaApriliaRacing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2013 at 06:33
Well I have never seen a duff chip that half works
Not really possible !

I have had customers fry them
Fitting to a daughterboard
Or mishandle them

I sent sparky three EPROMs
All with the same results ?

I have fitted this EPROM to countless 2000 model RSVs
With the same mods
With always great results

That's why I mentioned the possible issues with setup
JUST SAYING !

Because 99.9% of the time
It's a bike / setup issue

And I know most tuning centres don't have the first clue about these bikes
I once see a guy place a co meter in the end can

Go figure
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