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04 Factory Suspension settings ? \ S21s

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david000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:11
I've just swapped to new tires, S21's and the ride on the bike is now a bit harsh to the point where it jarred my back this morning.

Does anyone have a link to a recommended suspension setup for an 04 Factory ?  When I first rode it I was really impressed but now I'm probably traveling a little faster I'm minded to check what it's set at.

The S21s seem pretty good. Perhaps making the bike a little more nimble but I guess they may have a stiffer construction leading to a harsher ride on the road.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:17
have you owners manual? 

It's on here if a premium member if not or you could just google standard suspension settings 
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:26
Bridgestones have always had stiff carcasses and if you have come from Pirelli then you have gone from one extreme to the other. Settings will vary by rider weight and ability, you will not find a one size fits all list of settings. I guess a first try would to run slightly lower pressures than you were with the old (PIrelli?) tyres and then maybe back off on the compression damping very slightly (After first checking where you are now of course).

There is an AP video where Griff shows how to set sag initially and if you want to do further research you could do worse than watch some Dave Moss videos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:33
Cheers both. I do have a print out of the workshop manual but wondered if there was any recommended settings from the magazines or road tests etc that people like.

I think it had Michelin's on it before but they were getting on a bit with a couple of plugs on the rear LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 21:30
A quick update. I ended up adding some static sag to the rear as it was measuring only 7mm. It's upto 16mm now and is a bit more complaint.

The S21's seem ok, the only noted misbehavior was the slight feeling that the back was coming around at one point, but then I usually ride a 2 stroke, and it's more likely settings etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 22:57
Is that static 16mm including the rider? If so, it's still not enough. You should be looking for about 30mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 09:32
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Is that static 16mm including the rider? If so, it's still not enough. You should be looking for about 30mm


No, embarrassingly that was just on the side stand Embarrassed

Although upright I guess it will be a bit more.  The previous owner has butchered the shock collars so probably need to find a new pair of those. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 09:48
You could try taking off some compression damping on the shock (and maybe a little off forks) if you just want it a bit softer.

As the legend says, standard settings probably aren't going to suit you. But they are a baseline and I think they are better than others I've seen in Sport Rider etc.

Shock:


Forks:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 09:49
Sidestand will be mostly unweighted so sag will measure lower than reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 10:07
Originally posted by david000 david000 wrote:

Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Is that static 16mm including the rider? If so, it's still not enough. You should be looking for about 30mm


No, embarrassingly that was just on the side stand Embarrassed

That's about right without the rider I would say. With rider about 30mm on track or 35mm for road
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 10:34
If you've got 16mm static when the bike is leant over onto the sidestand I'd say you have far too much. When the bike is leaning on the sidestand it takes a lot of load off the suspension, not just the amount you'd imagine from the angle it leans at.

Static wants to be more like 8-12mm measured upright, off the stand. But most important is the sag with you on it. 25mm to 35mm is a good range. This is the sag that counts. Static sag is only there to prevent you getting buckarood off if it tops out. Have mine 10mm static and 25mm with me on it and that's plenty for me. The higher up the stroke it sits, the more compliant it will be within reason.

But really I don't think sag will have much effect on how harsh it is. Sag's about ride height really and getting the suspension in it's most compliant range. At the very top it will be a bit harsh, but due to the rising rate linkage it will be very harsh at the bottom. It's a compromise they have to make to counteract how anti-squat reduces the further into the shock stroke you are.

Look at damping first I reckon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 10:39
legend88 - thanks, I'll double check the other settings at some point but for the moment it's good enough on the road.

blacklines - thanks for those, just the job.

I'm tempted to have the suspension serviced - what sort of price would you expect for forks and shock ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 10:44
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

But really I don't think sag will have much effect on how harsh it is. Sag's about ride height really and getting the suspension in it's most compliant range.


With the old setting, the spring was compressed so does that not restrict the amount of travel available ?  It felt that way when sitting on the bike at stand still.

I have a similar issue with the car at the moment where it's riding harshly and I have wondered if it's lower stance is contributing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 11:18
Within reason different preload amounts won't affect travel. If it was proper wound down as far as possible there's a chance the spring would bind and not be able to compress enough to reach full travel. Other than that, you'll have more usable travel the higher up the range (less sag) you sit.

It might feel stiffer though because with less sag it takes more force to get the initial mm of movement. If you have a spring rate of say 100 N/mm, then it takes an extra 100 N to compress it another 1 mm.

To make the numbers make sense, let's say 100 N is 10 kg. And the linkage ratio is a constant 2:1 (it won't be in reality, it'll be progressively increasing) so that the shock spring sees twice the weight it is supporting.

If you have no preload on the spring there will be no forced stored in it. Every 5 kg of bike (or body) weight you add makes the spring compress by 1 mm.

If you already preload the spring so that it is compressed 10mm by the collars, you already have 1,000 N of force stored up there. So until you add more than 1,000 N (or 50 kg) you won't get any movement. But every 5 kg you add to the bike then continues to compress it by another 1 mm.

So preloading it just takes the slack out. At the 50 kg point without any preload the bike would be sitting roughly 20mm lower than the bike with the 10mm preload. Having a quick sit on it you would feel it start to compress if any weight whatsoever is applied to the seat. The bike with the preload added will not compress at all until the weight added is more than the preload amount of 50 kg of combined bike and body weight. This gives the feeling that the bike with no preload is softer.

But what really counts is how it moves with your weight on it, not just the initial sit down onto it. The rising rate linkage will mean that although the ratio is say 2:1 at the top, towards the bottom it might be more like 1:4. This means the bike with no preload would take twice as much force on it to compress it that same 1 mm as the bike with the preload.

It's actually a lot more subtle than that but it still makes a difference. Sitting too low in the stroke will be harsh.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 11:40
blacklines, thanks for the explanation, that's much clearer.  I hadn't considered it in those terms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 19:27
When I swapped to Dunlop sport smarts I too couldn’t believe how hard the bike was riding due to the stiff carcass walls so I backed off the preload  and damping on the front carefully until it suited , the rear could also be let off but not altered as yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2019 at 04:38
Hi Kex take it to MCT, the suspension on my 05 factory used to bounce me out my seat, the Maxton is totally different.
But as I learnt from Darren that shock had a problem and he can easily solve it, I take it to him a get a rebuild if that Ohlins and maybe get front too and get it set up to your weight. You won't be disappointed with the results. 
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