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GEN2 ENGINE INTO GEN1

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redratbike View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 16:38
not a how to guide as such but a source of info to all those thinking of doing this conversion
 
please note i have scoured the web and other aprilia forums so thanks to all whoever wherever they are for this valuble info
 
apologies if any of the info is copied over twice as its all in bits and bobs that has been saved in various places over the years
 
 

Easy swap. Use gen 1 front valve cover, tap holes for exhaust cam sensor and sensor and front exhaust cam sprocket from early motor. Use early flywheel and stator for correct crank trigger data, obviously the older
Model
crank trigger is required as well. Install. Add dummy loads
in place of outside coils, use 57mm throttle bodies and modify injector clips for use with Siemens injectors. Custom EPROM from Gabro to get spark tables right and PCV for fuel
Tuning.

 

To use the gen 2 engine in your gen 1 frame you will need to use the gen 1 ECU and wiring harness you will need to use a gen 1 flywheel , a gen 1 front valve cover & cam position sensor (you may need to drill and tap a mounting hole in the head for the sensor), You'll have to do a bit of grinding to get the gen 1 valve cover to fit, cut and weld gen 2 exhaust flanges on to your gen 1 exhaust or otherwise adapt a gen 2 exhaust to fit, get an EPROM designed for the Gen2 57mm TB and Siemens injectors (Gabro sells one), adapters for the injector wiring, convert the ignition from dual to single spark per cylinder, install a method for fast idle, and probably a couple of other small things I forgot. flywheel  use a gen 1 unit  

 

So now I knew it was possible to use an 2004+ engine with early electrics by simply:
1) retrofitting the early rotor/stator assembly (insures charging system compatability)
2) retrofitting the early cam sensor (thread existing holes in cam cap)
3) retrofitting the early cam cover (machine head for clearance)
4) removing (1) ignition coil per side and attaching the wires from both coils to a single coil
5) custom fitting an exhaust system
6) custom tuning the EFI.

 derbybrit1 from af1 threads

Tuono Racing Heart Transplant (Part 1 - The Plan)
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=129833

Tuono Racing Heart Transplant (Part 2 - Engineering Challenges)
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=129834

Tuono Racing Heart Transplant (Part 3 - The Results)
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=130089

Tuono Racing Heart Transplant (Part 4 - Final photos)
http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132861
 

 

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?242953-Gen2-engine-in-Gen1-frame&highlight=gen2+engine+in+gen1+frame



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 16:41
in addition to the info above ..you can just do the gen2 head on gen1 engine trick
 
why would you want to do that i hear you cry.
.
.
this is why
.
 

I would not put a bigbore kit on stock unported twinspark heads... i consider it like a waste of money, as the heads do not flow enought for that pistons.

the best mod you can do to your motor is to replace the heads with a set of IIGen ones.

It's almost a straight fit, it's only required a little rework on the front one and to modifiy the exhaust headers  using IIGen exhaust flanges.
Using a proper eprom with the right ignition timing you'll have very good midrange and aboout 10hp more from 6-7000rpm to top


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 16:44
good info when selecting the gen2 heads is the info below i have kept the gen 1 sizes for comparision ..
 
Valve sizes through the years....

..........            Inlet    Exhaust

1998-99           36        31

2000                36         31

2001-02           38         31

2003                38         31

2004-05           38         31

2006 on           38         33



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 16:46
Do you actually go to work? & if you do do you do anything when you are there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 16:58
Originally posted by davidrsurfer davidrsurfer wrote:

Do you actually go to work? & if you do do you do anything when you are there?
i'm at work now..keeping the share price high by not doing anything ha ha ha


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 18:43
I think Mark works for B.T , he is their "Internet Tester", he surf's so we dont need to.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimgreg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 20:10
Awesome info Mark, Been thinking about a head swap for a little while now but can't bring myself to go to the no turning back to original point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 21:35
Originally posted by jimgreg jimgreg wrote:

Awesome info Mark, Been thinking about a head swap for a little while now but can't bring myself to go to the no turning back to original point
I'm going for it this winter ...can't wait my 57's turned up today..it's all coming together slowly


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickyBoy1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 22:24
Oooo sounds exciting hehe, you could've done with that Evo6 system huh Hehee!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 22:39
Originally posted by NickyBoy1984 NickyBoy1984 wrote:

Oooo sounds exciting hehe, you could've done with that Evo6 system huh Hehee!

NickyBoy Big smile
yes and no Nickyboy

The Tigcraft will finally come out to play I have it...so I haven't got to fork out more cash on the winter make-over...or should I say that cash may become a rear shock?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diggs345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2014 at 23:20
nice thread , can you do one for degreeing cams , my heads spinning but iv got it now lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 07:26
Originally posted by kiwi_rsvr kiwi_rsvr wrote:

I think Mark works for B.T , he is their "Internet Tester", he surf's so we dont need to.............
Stuff that, I will do my own surfing thank you very much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2014 at 07:28
Originally posted by davidrsurfer davidrsurfer wrote:

Originally posted by kiwi_rsvr kiwi_rsvr wrote:

I think Mark works for B.T , he is their "Internet Tester", he surf's so we dont need to.............


Stuff that, I will do my own surfing thank you very much.
ha ha ..I'm not much of a swimmer so this is safer to me.

My work is in fits and starts ...I'd blitzed everything by 11am..... Then I had a late afternoon rush...but everyday is different


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nooj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 16:59
Nice find! Thanks for posting it. Will come in useful here ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 21:52
Why not just use the Gen 2 loom and mod it where necessary, surely that would be much easier than having modded ecu's, alternators and stuff made.
As all you may need to do is lengthen or shorten small areas of wiring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 22:14
I've just done/finishing this conversion at the moment.

It's been pretty straight forward plus I'm doing my own twists to the conversion.

I'm just waiting on a part from the states to arrive then I can fill with oil and coolant

Wiring is all in place just a touch of soldering to do as I wanna make it clean factory look
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2016 at 22:31
Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

Why not just use the Gen 2 loom and mod it where necessary, surely that would be much easier than having modded ecu's, alternators and stuff made.
As all you may need to do is lengthen or shorten small areas of wiring.



Gen 2 is CanBus controlled  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 05:16
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

Why not just use the Gen 2 loom and mod it where necessary, surely that would be much easier than having modded ecu's, alternators and stuff made.
As all you may need to do is lengthen or shorten small areas of wiring.



Gen 2 is CanBus controlled  Wink
And what difference does that make? Use the whole loom and theres no problem, is there??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 09:38
LOL   Good luck then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 11:01
If using the Gen2 loom ecu and clocks too as Ian said can-bus system don't think it would be a issue,butt the Gen1 ecu(chip) is easier to modify map so that's why this route is taken I think
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheesy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2016 at 11:11
Gabro writes a specific chip for this conversion.

It's the only one he does that requires a doughterboard.
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