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Gen1 Tuono clutch on its way out? |
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Posted: 25 May 2020 at 18:33 |
Hi all,
When I pull the clutch lever in at idle on my Tuono taking in any slack to get the biting point I am feeling a lot of vibration in the lever, which you can also see. This occurs at idle and I can feel the vibration when when riding and going thro the gears. It does take a lot of pressure to pull in the lever (more than normal) compared to my mates 2003 Tuono which has an Obreon clutch slave fitted. Question: If I fit an Oberon clutch slave will this remove the vibration or is my clutch on its way out anyways. fyi my Tuono has done 30,500miles so assuming clutch is original
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Yes, you will get vibration and pulsing through the lever, also yes, the action will be (slightly) easier with the Oberon. This comes with an in built potential disadvantage namely shorter piston stroke. If it were me I'd just recon the OE slave and check or replace your one way valve but your choice
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thanks for the quick reply. Oberon slave seal at £90ish is expensive and a search found some people didn't seem to find that much of a difference in the lever pressure.
I have had the Tuono some 6 years now and hadn't noticed the vibrations before, so hopefully changing the slave valve seal will stop it (fingers crossed). I was just worried that the stiffness in the lever and vibes wasn't a precursor to the clutch failing. So first thing to do is that I will change the valve seal and I'll let you know how I get on. |
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Well, an Oberon aftermarket slave complete is £90 ish whereas I think the oem slave rubbers were about £20 when I last looked. You would be well advised to get both the piston seal and the grease seal that fits in the end and holds grease captive around the pushrod. Also, as I said previously I'd check the action of the one way valve in the vacuum line as well while you're investigating. I run short levers with oem masters and slaves and I don't notice the effort needed any more. And I do have a performance aftermarket slave ready to go on, just haven't seen the need so far. |
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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If it’s a new phenomenon and feels like it’s beyond general vibes especially if it sounds a bit more chattery it could be your clutch bearing. You will get some slight pulsing at idle caused by the slipper clutch and that’s normal.
Sometimes when the bearing is failing it will quite aggressively spin the clutch pushrod and you will feel it spinning within the slave. You could pop the slave for a look for galling and put a bit of grease on the shaft If it’s dry and have a look while it’s running at what the shaft is doing. A bit of gentle rotation is normal which is just drag from the oil film. Never have a Oberon slave but had an mpl one and it was noticeably lighter but whether that’s worth £90 is a personal thing. |
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Out of curiosity did it release OK? Or was there any drag? Can't decide whether to just change my fluid or swap in my re con mpl |
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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From memory it very slightly changed the bite point but not by much. I just adjusted it a bit at the m/c.
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Cheers Spoonz, I'll take a look thanks
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Took the clutch slave off today. No leaking. Started the bike up to check if the clutch push rod was rotating. It is not rotating at all, but you can see it visibly vibrating /pulsing. If it is the bearing is it the bearing one on the clutch thrust plate?.
Are you thinking that the vibration could be vacuum pulses due to a dodgy vacuum valve?
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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Yes clutch rod bearing. Pic below is what happens when it fails completely
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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That was my thinking yes,but that is a definite rhythmical pulsing and yours seems to have got worse so probably not that. It's just that little one way bugger is a Rotax weak point and Aprilia money maker that most of us fall prey too sooner or later. |
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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oooh that aint good, not going to ride the T now, Cheer Spoonz for the confirmation
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Cheers IanG for your reponse
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Sorry it wasn't any help in your case,should have realised earlier My brain is only just starting to clear all the anesthetic and pain meds of the last week |
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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IanG, At least I know more about my Tuono now, which is a good thing. So thanks for that
"anesthetic and pain meds of the last week".... what you been up too? |
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Heart disease so just had a triple arterial bypass op Had the op breakfast time last weds,arrived home yesterday evening so now on a recovery program At the moment this means I say "it hurts a bit" and that means I can relax in front of the PC until I decide to try and move around a bit to salve my conscience about being lazy The bikes are on hold for a few months now until I'm recovered enough to be safe working
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Bjesus... IanG Slowly slowly does it will you, stay safe and get well soon, we (read 'I') need your knowledge
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Success, I replaced my clutch thrust plate and I now have a clutch lever with no more vibes.
The clutch thrust plate bearing was definately on its way out. Turning the thrust rod by hand you could feel the bearing was knackered. Spoonz... at least my bearing wasn't as bad as in your picture
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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It was a good job you picked up on it now rather than be stuck somewhere when it failed completely. What’s the bikes mileage out of interest ?
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Bikes done 30,500miles.
I replaced the clutch fluid as well and the amount of pressure on the lever is still the same. I have had an operation on my left hand in October 2019, because of Dupuytrens contracture and have scarring on my palm and up my middle finger, which is giving me grief after a ride out. So bar changing the clutch slave to an oberon clutch slave to see if the pressure is reduced, would changing the clutch friction plates make much difference. Any advice appreciated
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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No plates won’t make a difference to pull effort. If you want it lighter I would go for an mpl or factory pro slave as they are lighter than the Oberon. If it has an axial M/C, going radial helps a tiny bit as the m/c is at right angles to the lever. |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
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A lot more work but you could also mock up a cable clutch mech instead then you could design in whatever mechanical advantage you wanted. As I said, a lot of work but doable if really necessary.
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Thanks for the information.
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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Ian03
Moto2 racer Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Location: Gateshead Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Doable 'Yes', but too much hard work for me |
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Just do it, you're not getting any younger
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snowman
Premium Member Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Location: Romsey area Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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Fitted Oberon on mine due to replacement seal failing after a year on original, can’t say it makes any difference to lightening the operation tho, seems the same (09 Tuo)
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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I can remember comparing my stocker to Adzed's after he'd had an Oberon fitted and I can say without doubt there was a world of difference. Very noticeably easier on the hand,it felt like half the springs were missing by comparison,which surprised me as that's not a feature they advertise. Factory or MPL do say they alter the pressure/travel ratio by about 30% I think it was. I don't have a problem with OE but I do have a recon MPL that I may swap in down the road a bit to try out for myself
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
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I've got an MPL and when I fitted it I actually tested the force with a gauge (I'm a bit anal like that and like to know I'm getting what I paid for) and as you suggest Ian 30% reduction in effort is about spot on what I measured. Mmm 'About' and 'Spot on', maybe don't correlate too well
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wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
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Two factories
Oberan fitted on one has a Brembo RCS master and the MPL one has Accossato radial master fitted. The Accossato/MPL combo is noticeably lighter
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Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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I think the only possible downside to the MPL other than it being a design prone to leaks is the fact you trade effort for distance traveled. You may have to use all the lever travel on the bar to free the plates for a smooth action whereas before it might not have been necessary. I still have an urge to mod the MPL piston to take a thrust bearing though as I think that could be the best of all possible outcomes. Major friction reducer with the other benefit of much lower fluid operating temps and potentially keeping the fluid clear for much longer as well as much reduced effort and better looks.
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
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Any additional lever travel wasn't appreciably noticeable Ian and from memory I didn't even need to adjust the actuation rod. No leaks yet so far either - six years |
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