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gen1 rsh mille oil

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nation View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 18:16
evening, just wondering what oil folk put in their mille, 10/40 or 15/50, my bike is an ex race bike now used for track days

cheers Ross
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 18:22
Either fine to use

I’ve used both but generally 10/40 is my preferred one especially in my race bike but always semi synthetic personally. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 21:08
15/50 Semi for me, always has been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 22:38
I’ve used both but 15/50 last few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 11:30
thanks, manual says 15/50 if I can remember ? no expert on this subject whatsoever but does 15/50 fair better for track/race bikes for a mille because its thicker and the engine is working harder for track use ?

Ross 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 12:07
Manual recommends various types depending on the climate of the country it’s used in. 

Both are perfectly fine to use. Griff recommends 10w/40 as he believes it to be better suited to the climate here but equally he will give you whichever you ask for. He uses 10w/40 in his big bore conversions. I run a race bike supported by him and it uses 10w/40. So long as you change it regularly it doesn’t matter. 

The first number is how quick it will get around a cold engine. Lower the number the faster it gets around. The second number is it’s high temp stability. The higher the number the more stability it has. 
Use whichever you feel you want for your use. 15/50 may help hide worn engine noises to a point but if it’s just a track bike it won’t give you anymore protection than 10/40. 

I’d not bother with fully personally but again plenty use it. Has to be the right one however or it can cause clutch slip 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 12:14
Thank you very much for the info. last oil change I did was a 10/40, I did that when I bought the bike last sept and ridden only two track days, I may do another one then change it. Bike was raced before I purchased it and has been looked after very well mechanically and I intend to continue this.

Ross
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote camngetit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 17:53
Watch the youtube vid griff did it explains the numbers which are to do witb external temps and the w is for winter all to do with Whales i kid you not lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2021 at 20:27
The 'W' number is definitely to do with cold weather temperatures and should be selected based upon the weather in your location. However in the oil testing specification the second (Higher) figure relates to the viscosity of the oil at a fixed temperature (Around 100 C from memory of my University days - It's been a long time!) That temperature is meant to represent the constant running temperature of the oil in a properly performing engine running to the expectation of the manufacturer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2021 at 12:25
15/50 semi here from new (12yrs) gen2 no bother changed every year almost 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 12:50
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

The 'W' number is definitely to do with cold weather temperatures and should be selected based upon the weather in your location. However in the oil testing specification the second (Higher) figure relates to the viscosity of the oil at a fixed temperature (Around 100 C from memory of my University days - It's been a long time!) That temperature is meant to represent the constant running temperature of the oil in a properly performing engine running to the expectation of the manufacturer.


Think when it's like 15w50 it means the actual viscosity is 15, but there are some fancy chemicals in it to make it act as if it's 50 weight. So you get the low viscosity for the winter to get around the engine quick, but still the high viscosity for the summer to protect the engine better. As the oil wears those fancy black magic chemicals wear meaning your 15/50 starts becoming more like 15/30. At which point you're not getting the protection you want. 

Think 15 should be fine in the UK even if you run it in winter. I don't ride it in winter so it makes no difference. But ideally you want that 50 weight for summer. So for me I prefer 15w50 over 10w40. Though I'm not sure how much difference it really makes. People use both and I'm yet to hear about issues with these motors related to the oil. You don't hear many issues about the motors full stop do you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 20:12
Provided you change it at the service interval or sooner it will make no difference in wear. 

If the oil is starting to break down as it’s old it’s well overdue changing. On a track bike some people change every other track and some every time. Excessive for me for a few hundred miles of that, but each to their own 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 20:56
Mine was over serviced really but frank wratthal’s went through it late last year and it was about 8 years since they had done the big bore and Ian the engine builder phoned to ask how many miles it had done since the work, he was amazed as he said the engine was absolutely immaculate and as good as the day they did the original work, it gets used and I don’t believe in sparing the revs but good oil changed regularly is the best insurance.
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Thanks everyone for the info Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote camngetit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 23:49
Watch griffs video on youtube it explains all and w is winter not weight 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 12:48
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

Mine was over serviced really but frank wratthal’s went through it late last year and it was about 8 years since they had done the big bore and Ian the engine builder phoned to ask how many miles it had done since the work, he was amazed as he said the engine was absolutely immaculate and as good as the day they did the original work, it gets used and I don’t believe in sparing the revs but good oil changed regularly is the best insurance.

I think they are just really robust engines too. Often think that out of the same engine they could have gone for a fair bit more power but they went for reliability instead. Not a bad thing really, you want an engine to last the life of the bike and then some don't you. You see R6s of a similar age and they're just ticking time bombs for when the motor will go. No cheap replacements either. RSV engines are fairly cheap relatively because no one needs them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 15:01
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

I think they are just really robust engines too. Often think that out of the same engine they could have gone for a fair bit more power but they went for reliability instead. Not a bad thing really, you want an engine to last the life of the bike and then some don't you.

I think you are right. It was Aprilia's first big sportsbike so they will have wanted to make sure it didn't get the wrong reputation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 15:09
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

Mine was over serviced really but frank wratthal’s went through it late last year and it was about 8 years since they had done the big bore and Ian the engine builder phoned to ask how many miles it had done since the work, he was amazed as he said the engine was absolutely immaculate and as good as the day they did the original work, it gets used and I don’t believe in sparing the revs but good oil changed regularly is the best insurance.
i would say that’s speaks  volumes of good engine builder and regular maintenance 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:43
Bittersweet though. On the one hand it's amazing how clean the engine was. On the other hand I'd be feeling like that recent engine service was a waste of time and money. Guess it's bought peace of mind at the minimum. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:54
Not exactly a waste as I had the gearbox super finished and ceramic bearings fitted and extra clutch plates installed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 18:32

Here's the best oil explaination I've come across.

Lifted from AF1 forum several years ago. I saved it to my computer for future reference (yeah...sad....I know...lol)

The author was a senior oil development tech working for Amsoil (one of the biggest and best selling oil brands in the US) The guy really knew his stuff...and at the time he busted loads of oil myths.

It's fairly a longish read...but a good reference for those interested...



***************-----------**************

"Initially, as we all know, we had single conventional grade oils, such as 30, 40, 50, etc weights.


The problem with these oils, as you can imagine, is that they have poor cold weather properties. Viscosity is the thickness of the oil, and is the inverse of temperature. The warmer the oil gets, the thinner it gets. The colder it gets, the thicker, or more viscous it gets.


So multi-grade oils were invented. A 10w30 conventional oil is a 10 weight base stock. A straight 10 weight oil is much thinner at 100 degrees than a straight 30 weight. So Viscosity Improvers are added (VI's.) VI's are basically polymer compounds that expand when heated. This prevents the 10 weight oil from thinning so much. It allows this 10 weight oil to ACT like a 30 weight oil would at temperature. This allows the benefit of a 10 weight oil during colder temperatures, and startup, yet have the benefit of a 30 weight once at operating temperature. Keep in mind that oil always thins as temperature goes up, but the rate at which it thins can be controlled by VI's.


VI's though, are not perfect. They degrade rather quickly, especially in high heat, or high stress situations, such as turbo chargers or motorcycle transmissions, where the gears smash the oil. The degradation of the VI's is called oil shear. This means that a 10w30 is more stable and longer lasting than a 5w30 because it has less VI's in it, since it already starts off as a heavier oil. After only a thousand miles or two, your 5w30 in your truck is probably around a 5w20, and will eventually get down to a straight 5 weight if you leave it in there too long.


10w40's and 5w30's are particularly prone to this problem, because they require quite a large amount of VI's to function. If you put 10w40 in your truck, consider using a good diesel truck oil like a 15w40 Rotella that is much, much more stable than the passenger car 10w40, in addition to having a much better additive package that prevents wear in the engine. This additive package, however produces SLIGHTLY more emissions, so they are phased out of car oils, but the "Diesel" oils still have them.


Now thats out of the way, lets go onto synthetics. I don't want to get off on too much of a tangent, but not all synthetics are equal. Some synthetics, like some of the valvolines and pennzoils are not real synthetics, but merely a highly refined conventional oil that the government allows to be classified as synthetic. This is still a group III oil (conventional) and not a group IV oil (full synthetic.)


Anyways, a full synthetic is less affected by temperature than a conventional oil, by a HUGE margin. In a 10w50 or a 15w50 (it really doesn't matter) they simply take a synthetic base stock of straight 50 weight oil and essentially do nothing to it. Because it remains thin at cold temperatures and resists thinning at higher temperatures they don't have to start off with a thin oil and then add VI's to it.


This also means that because there are little to no VI's in synthetic oil, it is much more stable and longer lasting than a multi-grade conventional oil. 


The fact that a Xw50 synthetic can pour down to -39 degrees, while a 5w20 pennzoil can only pour down to -33 degree is pretty amazing. It also tells you that a straight 50 weight synthetic is liquid at -33 degrees while the 5 weight conventional turned into a gel.


So that is why the first number does not matter in a FULLY SYNTHETIC oil. Because its really just a straight weight oil. The general public would have a hard time getting their minds off multi-grade oil numbers so the oil manufacturers put the first number on there to confuse people less. They simply put any old number at the front that most people would be comfortable with, or they think they would prefer, but its pretty much all the same."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 21:07
Thanks Tifa, that was an interesting read!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 21:23
So he’s saying the 15/50 fully synthetic oil I’ve been using is the best, as I read it?
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