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Gen 2 oil change - quick question

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david000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 16:56
Hi all,

A quick newby question. I'm about to change the engine oil on my Gen 2 RSV.

I have the filer and oil from AP, but watching youtube a 'how too' vid the guy mentions a copper washer for the bottom of the tank, plus o-ring.

I don't have these - are they required for the job ?

Any other suggestions or advice welcome.

Ta.

----------------------------------------------
Update - besides the 3.9L of oil and the correct length filter,  it's worth having:

New O-ring for the filter cover (Didn't come with the filter) - mine leaked.
New copper crush washer for the tank drain - I annealed mine to reuse.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 17:02
Hey bud welcome 

Have you ensured you have the right oil filter as there is a long and short one. 

Also don’t be tempted to overfill it make sure the clip you watched covers that. There is a copper washer and always replace, however it is soft copper so if it isn’t bad it should reseal if you’re lucky. If you aren’t in a rush you can by assorted copper washers from Halfords in a pack which has perfect sized ones in.

I’m not sure what o ring  he means unless it’s the one on the filter cover? If so they usually come with a filter but again provided it isn’t cracking usually you can reuse them 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 17:24
Cheers, yep the o-ring was the filter cover. I've just checked the new oil filter but there isn't a separate one.

I checked the filter type based on the cover images on the AP web site so fingers crossed on that.


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete 86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 17:35
You need 2 copper washers. Check the box thoroughly. 
One for the tank and there is an oil drain plug on the side of the crank case.  Think its  a 5mm allen.

If you havent got them you  can heat them  up until they glow red.
This process softent copper and makes it reusable. 
Plumbers blowtorch or gas hob did the trick on mine. gasmark 8Thumbs Up

Orings Are Reusable if they arent damaged. or hard/Brittle . 

3.5L Run it until its hot before topping up. oil expands hot so if you fill to max cold it might p#$s out.
keep bike VERTICAL when topping up .  NOT ON SIDESTAND.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 17:53
Ta Pete,

I have the bike on a stand so upright. Good point ref reheating the copper washers, I was going to say I wish we were on gas but I remember I have a camping stove which will do the trick :)

I assume you let them cool in their own time and not quench them ?  It's been a long time since school metal work lessons !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 17:59
Its called annealing copper works great unlike my spelling I thinkThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:02
Don't put it water itll harden let it cool naturally there's probably a big debate on that lol but that what works for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:22
That works for steel,I was always taught to quench copper to anneal 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:28
Lol probably doesn't matter either or just the way I was shown on big 400cc n 490cc motox bikes whith big copper head gaskets Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:30
Yup,had me worried there for a bit but:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:37
I stand corrected lol just what I was tald to do n worked after having head gasket leak Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete 86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 18:45
Quench it baby, quench it!LOL
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LOLThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:07
Cheers all.

I'll have a go tomorrow and heat\quench them.

It's interesting, a few guys on youtube seems to suggest flattening them off with sandpaper to reuse them but that's not going to make them more malleable.

Does the 'course' filer next to the tank cause any issues ?  I guess it's worth double checking.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete 86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:13
Course filer next to tank.  Whats that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:20
Coarse filter in tank?

I wouldn't bother.  Awkward to undo and only a perforated metal tube when you do.

Fine enough to stop dogs and small boys but otherwise just a gesture

I've done it on both my bikes just to see when I got them and not bothered since




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:23
Originally posted by david000 david000 wrote:

Ta Pete,

I have the bike on a stand so upright. Good point ref reheating the copper washers, I was going to say I wish we were on gas but I remember I have a camping stove which will do the trick :)

I assume you let them cool in their own time and not quench them ?  It's been a long time since school metal work lessons !



Pete is right regarding checking and topping up the oil but drain and fill on the sidestand NOT a paddock stand or similar you won't drain all the oil. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:24
Originally posted by david000 david000 wrote:

Cheers all.

I'll have a go tomorrow and heat\quench them.

It's interesting, a few guys on youtube seems to suggest flattening them off with sandpaper to reuse them but that's not going to make them more malleable.

Does the 'course' filer next to the tank cause any issues ?  I guess it's worth double checking.



I suppose the idea is good in as much as if a washer has been well tightened it will have a recess imprinted in it ,shouldn't be a problem if it's replaced the same way up and tightened by the same screw/drain plug though
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:25
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Coarse filter in tank?

I wouldn't bother.  Awkward to undo and only a perforated metal tube when you do.

Fine enough to stop dogs and small boys but otherwise just a gesture

I've done it on both my bikes just to see when I got them and not bothered since





Literally just about to say about that one too its a git
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pete 86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:33
Ahh i see gauze filter.
I dont bother, same crack as ianG.
I check them on the dukes at desmo service.
5yr of 15k ish depending on model and honestly they are all mint.

And yep sidestsnd drain will drain more as badapple said.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2020 at 19:39
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Coarse filter in tank?

I wouldn't bother.  Awkward to undo and only a perforated metal tube when you do.

Fine enough to stop dogs and small boys but otherwise just a gesture

I've done it on both my bikes just to see when I got them and not bothered since





Literally just about to say about that one too its a git


I have my tank off currently and was going to remove the pipe but found

a) I couldn't find a spanner that fitted

b) The damn thing has a very narrow head and rounded corners so an adjustable is not recommended

I decided to just flush my tank with the pipe in situ to clean
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 07:56
Agreed then. I had a look at one of my tanks for sale and it was immaculate while it was easy to access. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 14:48
The beauty of having spares laying around

I decided to remove mine for a deep clean and decided to rub it down and repaint it as the forward faces were starting to bubble and rust.

Did think about an Inox unit but decided I could do without the potential fracture issues when I had a can of paint on the shelf and time on my hands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 15:24
Makes perfect sense Ian  out of interest are the Touno tanks the same as the Rsv? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 15:33
As far as I know yes,although I haven't cross checked pt Nos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 16:40
Thought they are I'll double check, going to start listing stuff on EBay so good to know so I can widen the audience for some bits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 16:43
Yes tanks are the same 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 17:30
Thanks again all.

I did the change, all seemed ok until i run it back to temp on the paddock stand and it's weeping from the oil filter cover.

The o-ring seemed ok when I looked and came away in situ in the cover. I re assembled the cover with the inside casting writing right way up (the cover looked symmetrical to me) but the filter which came out looks like it had crimped up and was a little deformed.

Is it reasonable to drain the oil again from from the tank, and reuse - or new oil required - and o-ring I guess just in case ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 17:53
Was going to ask how it was going.regarding reusing oil hmm not keen on that I probably wouldn't unless I knew what I was draining into was super clean.think you might have to drain the lot unless there a trick,also get new o,ring to be on safe side Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 17:57
oh well, it will make (expensive) chain saw chain oil !

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