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Forza aprilia race custom EPROM chips |
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Knappster
L Plates Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: nottingham Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Thanks for the info guys, I'll get back to you
Cheers A |
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ruansdad27
Premium Member Joined: 14 Apr 2017 Location: essex Status: Offline Points: 74 |
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hi I'm also new to Aprilias, I gave an 2004 Edward's, is thus something that would benefit my bike too?
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Evil Twin
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Jul 2019 Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Me too. About 3 weeks in. But mines a gen 2 |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Has anyone got a copy of the idle adjustment guidance Ed used to give out with the Forza chips? Got an FR100 and no real issues but curious what the advice was. Gets mentioned a few times to just follow the instructions with the chip but would be handy to have it here too. Would ask Ed but doesn't look like he's been about since 2018.
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Owen
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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As it happens I have mine from years ago, talk about hoarders! I presume you mean the trim pots on the ECU and not the idle adjuster. Mine was for an FR200 but the instructions state set both at the 12 O'Clock position. Mind, I had my TB's set by Griff not long after so it was never really run at the base setting.
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Ah brilliant, thanks Ray. Was after whatever was in the instructions really but if magic word were just "set to 12 o'clock" then that's fine.
More or less what I expected. That the chip would be built around a particular bike that had it's trim pots at unity and then the injector open times adjusted on the chip itself. So assuming the bike was more or less typical of most other Milles, setting it at the middle would get closest results, with equal room to tune in both directions to account for differences in bikes. I've never had mine CO tuned, just done it by ear. That gave me a great throttle response with none of the surging that some people get, or the square wave on/off throttle some complain about. Yet still feeling sharp higher up the revs. What made me give this some thought is I went out for a 64 mile ride the other day and used 11 litres of fuel. Considering I'd filled it to within a litre of being full I was pretty surprised to see the fuel light intermittently 10-15 minutes from home. Was sure I used to get about 100 miles to the light so figured maybe I'd had it a bit rich before to give it a more fluffy feel at small throttle openings.
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Owen
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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11 litres in 64 miles! My light doesn't usually come on until about 120-130 miles. Now I'm not the fastest but we don't hang about although I rarely rev the engine beyond about 8K to be honest. On the CO balance note, when I had mine done by Griff the bike was chalk and cheese before and after. I had fitted a can, modded collector, open airbox, big air boot, Edwards airtubes and the FR200 before the balance so there was a lot to possibly throw things out. Afterwards it was sublime in comparison. No jerkiness, pulled smoothly from below two and a half thousand (As long as you don't grab a handful) and all the mods gave a magnificent mid range improvement.
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Yeah works out to be about 26 mpg I think. I wasn't riding fast either. Rarely above 8k and never full throttle. Just country roads between villages so just taking it easy enjoying a sunny day really. The trims were at 12 and 12:30 so nothing extreme. From memory I did have them on the rich side for Catalunya to give a more smooth response from mid corner.
It's not hard to balance the air bleeds by ear. No harder than tuning a guitar really. They only really affect idle though. But with the injector timing trim pots they affect the whole rev range. So just tuning for a nice idle might be at the expense of less than perfect running. I think to do that right you really need a gas analyser. Or maybe cheap solution would be to tune for best running while holding the throttle open at different revs. Make a note of where it looks to be for every rev increment and pick a sort of best fit. Don't fancy spending that long crouched next to my bike revving it's arse off though ha.
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Owen
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426hemi
Premium Member owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5676 |
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As per legend, my light comes on about the same and mines 1103 with a few other bits, it makes a huge difference getting it correctly setup, not just mpg but smoothness and throttle control.
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Ended up following gabro's advice and setting the trims at a low rpm (1k to 1.5k). Doing it this way led me to reduce both trims to more like 9:30 to 10:30. So much leaner than it was. When I looked back up after finishing them by ear at the side of the road I found the low idle I'd set had actually gone up about 300-400 rpm. Which was reassuring.
Will have to check after some more miles what the effect to fuel consumption was. I did find it smoother cracking the throttle open mid corner now. Plus all that low rpm chundling I was doing felt a bit more responsive. I realise now it was previously bogging a little at times at low revs. Be curious what other people ended up with on the trims with their FR100 chip. Seems a lot richer than the RP58 and leaning it so much makes me wonder how it's so far off. Maybe the fact I've got the baffle in..
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Owen
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Not sure what my bike is running,it SHOULD have been the FR200 but I did buy it before the modded collector so may be the 100. From what I can remember from the last time I rode that bike 5 years ago it smelt like it was running rich as f*kc. I can't remember that far back whether or not I'd taken it to be set up again or if I just ran the thing. I fitted the Edwards tubes,MODDED big air boot,pseudo Evo box,Modded collector and Evo exhaust and chip all at the same time,and all I can remember is it felt like a bigger,more tractable engine had been fitted. I do remember that I tried setting up one of my bikes up by ear in the past and getting what I thought was a good result,however when Griff got hold of it he was surprised the air bleeds were still in the throttle bodies the setting was so far out. Following his intervention the difference was literally night and day and people following stopped complaining about running into a wall of fumes, so I'd advise always getting a proper balance done by someone with the proper equipment who knows what he's doing. That'll be Griff then Well worth the time and expense
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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I'm sure it is worth it Ian. I know it's got to be impossible to know each cylinder is at a certain CO% just by tuning for the best idle by ear. It's an improvement as it is anyway. Have to do until I can spare a day to run the bike down to Tamworth and back.
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Owen
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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That's my problem as well, I used to get my bikes done when Griff did the Northern Branch days at Spookies place,it's a bit of a trek to Tamworth although I have been a few times. I have an Ape main stealer not far down the road but I wouldn't even let them wash a bike now after having experienced their 'service' once too often in the past.
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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arlurt
Premium Member Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Location: York Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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I'm still running the default settings with my FR200, Big Boot, bigger airbox, modded collector, and EVO Ti can. It's a lot smoother in Map 1, which I think is for "Normal" airbox, and feels livelier in Map 2 with pops and bangs, which I think is for "Open" airbox. I prefer Map 1, and I'm sure it would benefit from a proper set up, but it's a bit of a trek to AP.
I fitted a switch so I could easily change maps, but I assume a proper set up by AP would only be correct for the map it was set to? How much does a TB balance and CO set up cost?
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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I should call the shop and check I don't think anyone will quote workshop prices online |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Yeah I reckon. My trims were set just above 12 o'clock on the stock RP58. On the FR100 they're more like 10. If I had the ability to switch between the two there would be no way to have the trims correct for both maps. Unless all the maps did was adjust the curve subtly in only a few places. But I'd imagine the whole curve will be richer or leaner on each map.
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Owen
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arlurt
Premium Member Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Location: York Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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The TB balance is a mechanical thing so no issue regarding the selected map. Once they're in to it, it might not take much more time to get pot settings for both maps? That would also show up if the fuelling was different in the maps, or just ignition...?
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Yeah the airbleed screws won't be the problem, it'll just be the trims. You could always modify the ECU I guess. Tune it to for both maps and work out the resistance settings for both potentiometers for both maps. Then replace the pots with resistors that can be switched. Though it's a lot of hassle if you then go and play with the throttle bodies again and have to redo the lot.
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Owen
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arlurt
Premium Member Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Location: York Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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I confess I wasn't thinking of making it switchable at the roadside, just thought it would be good to know that for Map 1 set the pots to this, and for Map 2 set them to that. Could even write it on top of the ECU so I don't forget...
I'm assuming that most of the work is in setting up the Test Equipment, taking the bike apart so you can get to and do the mechanical bit. Reading the numbers while you adjust the pots shouldn't take very long, so doing that bit twice, once for each Map shouldn't make the job much bigger...? |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Most of the work is probably in removing the exhaust bungs to get the sensors in ha. It's the expensive gas analysers that put me off. But yeah, you could get AP to set it for both maps and just note down the positions. Though the trims are very sensitive so it would be unlikely that you'd ever get it exactly how they set it again. But should be close enough for government work.
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Owen
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