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Clutch and that one way valve. |
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 21:49 |
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Removed my throttle bodies to give them a good clean and checked the clutch vac one way valve to find it not working. TBH I'm not even sure it's ever worked since I've owned the bike (2.5 years). I always blip the throttle on down changes and engine braking has always been good with no rear wheel lock ups and I've never had clutch slip.
So...is there any point replacing this valve and would it not just be better to blank off the pipes at the throttle bodies and the clutch cover?
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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colinmeadows
Premium Member Joined: 22 Jan 2016 Location: cardiff Status: Offline Points: 572 |
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dont blank the pipe off at the clutch cover , i did at first and the clutch lever got worse and worse until i had no clutch lever pressure. i removed the blank and immediately i had my clutch lever pressure back !!
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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The valve is limited in value if you always blip on downshifts anyway,it's more designed so you don't lock the wheel by just dropping down which is something I can't force myself to do. I think it also has some effect on clutch pressure as well,or at least helping give the hand an easier time. Mine was found to be fubared during a service but tbh after spending £20 or whatever for a new one I never noticed any benefit as I always increase the revs during a downshift,I just can't help it,it's ingrained over the years. Plus when you've learned to get it right you have the possibility of seamless downshifts without the clutch which is very satisfying,especially if your hydraulic slave cylinder decides to blow it's seal as they all do at some time
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Me neither. It's a lot of engine braking at the best of times, dropping without blipping sounds a bit brutal to me. I had a lot of grief with my back end skidding into turns last time on track and ended up just feathering the clutch out for much longer. Think it is very dependent on how the air bypass screws are set on the throttle bodies to be honest. With some settings (I think more shut from memory) there's quite heavy engine braking and with others (I think more open) it will freewheel a bit better which makes cornering a bit smoother. Might be worth having a play with because those sigma slippers aren't cheap and the vacuum valve isn't enough I don't think.
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snowman
Premium Member Joined: 27 Oct 2010 Location: Romsey area Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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Me Too, I always blip throttle when changing down , old timer here Iām afraid š¦
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Soon it'll be a thing of the past remembered only by us oldies,electronics will probably be controlling that kind of thing like a big twist & go. Anyone still able to double de clutch their car? An old habit learnt back in the days of synchro-less gearboxes,or in my case sychro-less first gear |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
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Yep I can double de-clutch, did it often when racing. As you say you soon won't be able to buy a manual car anyway. I was looking at the Audi website the other day and in the A4, only one model, with the most basic engine package can be purchased with a traditional manual box. All the rest come with the complicated and notoriously unreliable S-tronic whether you like it or not! Everything is being dumbed down for the numpties. - They can't park without hitting things unless they have sensors. - They can't stop without hitting things unless they have ABS. - They can't do hill starts without hitting things unless they have hill-start assist - They can't go round corners without spinning unless they have traction control - They can't stay in their own lane without lane assist - They can't keep their distance from the car in front without automatic braking (Or whatever it is called) - They can't remember to lock their car unless it has keyless locking - They find it too difficult to open and close the boot if it takes more than the press of a button .... and it goes on! Then with electric vehicles, as you say it will be all twist and go. Tech is wonderful, as an engineer I find much of it fascinating and electronics has allowed us to do almost everything we can imagine. However, just because we can, doesn't mean we should! |
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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Wonder why this happened. My thinking is that with the clutch cover blanked off there is no vacuum assistance so the clutch will remain fully engaged unless the clutch lever is pulled in. Guess I'll just leave as is then to be on the safe side. Seems weird that there are 2 lines coming from the bodies but only 1 has the one way valve before the 2 - 1 connector. Does this mean there is always some vacuum assist, but on high vacuum loads created by high rev down shifts you get additional assistance to prevent rear wheel lockup? That may explain why you lost your clutch Colin.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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mixdrive1
Moto GP Alien Joined: 03 Oct 2014 Location: Lincoln Status: Offline Points: 641 |
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I thought all factory fitted semi slipper clutches were just a gimmick by the the manufactures to sell the bikes?
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current;2001mille,2003R,2003Eddy,2012Tuono. Previous RS250,2006Factory,2001mille,2001R and 2x2002mille
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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Just fitted one of these, operates from 2 psi and works with vacuum, well within the Aprilia intake manifold range. Looks very well made and half the price of the plastic oem.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Looks good,let us know how it works?
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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Slipper clutches aint cheap but for a big twin i think they are worth the expense . I have a yoyodene on mine and on track they are fantastic , you can cog it does in quick succession and just lay down, if you are a but too aggressive it does back in a little and the first time it can be a bit scary ,but you soon realise that it will always comes back in, then it is just great fun. To not have to worry about the back locking up give you more time to concentrate also makes corner entry a breeze . It's a great asset and once you have ridden with one you will always long for one. It's my favorite mod on the bike . They do come up secondhand and worth the money , it transforms the bike on track.
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budd
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Oct 2014 Location: Weast Yorks Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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When I fitted the 57tbs I put 2 one way valves on mine, used these off ebay
seem well made (much better than OE) and a vaiable option to the expensive plastic items, so does having 2 make any difference ? well after using it all last yr I can honestly say it made no discernible difference, (not that I was really expecting any) it was just a little experiment which proved not to work and TBH I think the whole system is of very limited value, a proper slipper clutch is top of my wish list.
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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Budd you will love it mate , they don't come up very often . I got mine from New Zealand. The lad I bought it off said it totally transformed the bike and he was exactly right. A good place to look for one is on Facebook on the Aprilia groups, i found one on there for a rsv. Net member for 325 quid with virtually a brand new set of clutch plates It could easily take a couple of second off a lap. Good luck mate, if I see one i will give you a shout.
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damo46
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 May 2012 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 758 |
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This is the same one I have used, looks like the gen2 one as well " TOPRAN 112 283 755 CHECK VALVE 058 905 291K 52C3711" |
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Road Racing Ireland, Do It Between The Hedges
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Couple of seconds a lap?!? How big is the effect? Does it turn the bouncing into a smoother slide or does it go further and lessen the engine braking a bit too? Does it still work when you're braking hard and there's next to no weight on the back wheel?
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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Hi blacklines, there's is no bouncing at all, it does lessen the affect of the engine braking. Yes it does slip under hard braking when the back wheel is light. When i was at Donnington last year coming down the back straight , i would leave my braking late and just cog down in quick succession and you don't have to worry about blipping it or when you should change down into the next gear. It does feel like it is snaking a little at the back, but it's fine, a bit like moto 2 although the back is snaking around but the back wheel is still rotataing. Two incidents i remember when i first took on the the road to text it, the first one was i came into a bend too hot a hair pin and i had a car on the opposite side so i had to lay over even more and charge into first and it didnt even flinch It will even slip in first if you shut the throttle off abruttly as it did when a car pulled out in front of me and i was cranked over and the slipper clutch took it easy than theback move e out. The bike is a lot more composed . If you are anywhere near hampshire come and have a little go on mine in the spring, another good thing about it is that it protects the engine against over reving. I came into one corner at Donnington and it a false nutral and in my panic i went down two instead of one, if it was not for the slipper i reckon i would have been off.
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Sounds great, will keep an eye out for one going for a good price! Thanks for the offer dog but Winchester is a bit of a trek from North Yorkshire. Sorry for interrupting your thread Steve.
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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No worries, interesting reading. 'Fraid I'm too dyed in the wool with mechanical sympathy to ever do down changes without blipping the throttle though. Pic of the valve fitted, I had the valve covers blasted clean while I had them off to do the valve shim changes. |
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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aaressveeguy
World Superbike Star Joined: 06 May 2018 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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no, please no. Don't coax me into adding one more item to the 'wants' list. God, I need to get a grip
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Diablo
Premium Member Joined: 29 Sep 2010 Location: Upwell Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
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We can help you empty your wallet, don't worry about that. I got hold of a little used Sigma slipper. Not sure if I paid over the odds at nearly 400, but less than a year old. Sure I saw a very cheap one a few days ago, but didn't pay much attention at the time. |
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Question everything.
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wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
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STM or Sigma come up around £300-£350 secondhand and to put it simply are amazing. One of the best upgrades you can make š¤š»
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Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Are they universal or do you have to look out for certain models to fit certain bikes?
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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The clutches are interchangeable between gen 1 and 2 so they are the same, with the STM you may need a special holding tool when fitting. Don't forget TSS which is great make , and a few of them are TSS with different branding.
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wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
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Gen 1 and Gen 2 clutches exactly the same so no issue with the years on either STM or Sigma
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Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
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budd
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Oct 2014 Location: Weast Yorks Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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If anybody sees one and doesn't want it please message me and let me know it's the very top of my Xmas list ( and I've been a very good boy) š
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