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Tyres for fast road use? |
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RSV_Ecosse
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Bonnybridge Sco Status: Offline Points: 1712 |
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Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 15:02 |
Right dudes,
Lets talk hoops. I need a new set. Everyone raves about M7RR's. I'm also looking at Michelin Road 5's and Power RS. What should I buy? Gen 1 Mille, I'm a brisk road rider, no track days. Don't give a toss about mileage/longevity, I just want the best tyre grip wise for the road. Not fussed about wet weather performance either as I'm not out in the rain unless I get caught in a shower. Go.........
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2000RSV - Lots of carbon tat - Hopeless wobbler onboard |
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Af1
Moto GP Alien Joined: 29 Dec 2016 Location: Herts Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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There isn't a bad sports bike tyre now, they are all very good compared to just 20 years ago. Ze Germans reviewed it this way.... Pirrelli own metzeler, so they are probably top tyres now..... |
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BIG UN
Premium Member Joined: 05 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 2757 |
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had m7rr on my red mille and liked them alot,good all round tyre.
also ran the michelin road 3's,fantastic tyre and lasted ages, not tried the road 4 or 5 but if wet weather and longevity is of low concern i highly rate the pirelli diablo super corsas ,i had them on the gsxr1000 and they were superb grip like sh*t to a blanket but obviously wont last long. theyre also on this r1 ive picked up,but ive only done 10miles upright in frost so far, theyve got bigger chicken strips than kfc lol. theres probably better/newer tyres out now,ive not bought a set for a good few years pal. (not had a bloody bike long enough lto change hoops ol)
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Gazza
Premium Member Jaffa Cake Dealer Joined: 16 Nov 2012 Location: Essex Status: Offline Points: 862 |
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Last time I put Diablo Corsa III on the Gen 1 especially after winning the fast road review/test in Performance Bikes.
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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If you want half decent mileage, M7's. I got over 3k out of my last rear and more than sticky enough for the road.
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426hemi
Premium Member owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5677 |
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Pirelli super corsa sc1 or 2, stick like crazy.
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RSV_Ecosse
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Bonnybridge Sco Status: Offline Points: 1712 |
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Local mob can do me a pair of Michelin Power RS for £220 inclusive. That's a ride in/ride out price. Thought that was pretty good?
They can also do M7RR's for £245 or 2CT's for £200. What are the Power RS's like? Seem to get good reviews.
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2000RSV - Lots of carbon tat - Hopeless wobbler onboard |
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robbiersv
Premium Member Joined: 16 May 2009 Location: lothians Status: Offline Points: 424 |
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Gary like hemi I also run sc2 pirellis, the grip is fantastic but for me the feedback from the front is astounding, you know exactly what the tyre is doing, size wise I've experimented with 190/180 and the 180 for me wins hands down with 15/44 gearing.
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The mille high club.www.apriliaperformance.co.uk.www.rsvr.net
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426hemi
Premium Member owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Offline Points: 5677 |
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I run sc1 front and sc2 rear in 180/60 and they are fantastic, make sure they are warm though.
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Lammy
Moto2 racer Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Location: Leicestershire Status: Offline Points: 175 |
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Something worth pointing out that's rarely looked at is the tyre construction. A Michelin tyre will be made 3ply where as a a Pirelli is 2 and a new Metzler Roadtec01 is 1. This means the Michelin is a stiffer tyre and will as such effect the overall spring rate of each end of the bike. If you are going from a Pirelli to a Michelin you should notice the increased spring rate a result. The difference should only be half a N/mm or so but for some people that's enough reason to swap fork springs. Overall if you feel you want to slightly alter spring rates, try a different tyre construction, if you want to keep it the same, go for a tyre that has the same construction that you're currently using!
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2008 Tuono 1000R in Orange
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budd
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Oct 2014 Location: Weast Yorks Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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I've used supercorsas SC1 front SC2 rear with great success of the years, ( SC0 = S soft SC1 soft/med SC2 med/hard) and as stated above they are awesome mega grip and feedback after all these are the tyres used in many top level race series so you can't really get much more grip without going to a full slick. However it's not all good news, as is to be expected they aren't great in the wet, extreme caution is require in the rain, also as stated above they need to be up to temp and the first heat cycle is really important, on the road I found it very difficult to get the required heat to properly heat cycle the tyre, the way round this is to use scrubs as they are already sorted, another thing to consider is with 15/44 gearing the commonly available 180/60 won't fit I had to revert back to 15/42 to obtain the required clearance and the 60 profile tyre does change the feel of the bike I personally prefer 180/55 but it's surprising how much difference in size that extra 5% ratio makes to the overall size the 60 is noticeably bigger, more bulbous. The final thing to say about the supercorsa is there are 3 different types, SC, SP and BSB only the SC is the full race tyre.
Although I've not used Metzler Ractec RR I believe they are broadly similar to the Pirellis, 3 compounds K12,K2, K3 with a few subtle differences, the Metz are more focused to road racing while the SCs aimed are short circuit, so if anything the Metz are likely to be a better choice for track and fast road use. As for further options the only one I have experience with (and currently have fitted) is the Dunlop Sportmax D211/212 GP racer, like the SC + Metz RR they are competition oriented and again available in 3 compounds S,M, E (endurance) in comparison with the SCs I find very similar levels of grip I suspect the SC will provide the most ultimate grip but TBH I can't go fast enough to find the limit of either, the biggest difference is how quickly the Dunlops warm up and hold their heat this apparently is due to Dunlops NTEC construction with allows the use of frankly ridiculously low pressures, according to Dunlop the target running pressures are 20-24 PSI rear 33-37 PSI front, to me that rear tyre is vertically flat!!! but it seems to work the idea is you drop the rear tyre to suit the track conditions and reflate for road use, I'm currently using 36 front and 26 rear for road use and I have to say they do work really well and I think the lower than normal pressure allow the tyre to deform and give a large foot print and also helps build and maintain the heat. And they have solid a solid competition pedigree Michael Dunlop set the then 131 mph lap record at the 2013 TT on D212 GPs (faster than his slick shod superbike)so they must be doing something right. |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16147 |
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Michelin road pilot 4's sticky enough and good in the damp if caught out , sounds like the m7rr's are the same
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www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
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wilko
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Stroud Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Any tyre sports/touring or grippier is suitable for fast road use. People hooning around requiring the grip that SC's offer is going far too bl**dy fast for the road lol ;-)
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bladebod
World Superbike Star Joined: 08 Nov 2016 Location: Portsmouth Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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I could do with less traffic and potholes in the road which would then allow my tyres to reach some sort of "operating temperature" where they will develop more grip than even Troy Corser can use. Tyres per se dont endow the bike or rider with those levels of skill required to go beyond their design boundaries (sadly)
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rsvwalt
Moto GP Alien Joined: 17 May 2016 Location: mansfield Status: Offline Points: 346 |
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Avon storm 3d for me, the bloke who runs the tyre place is an ex-racer including the IOM and has them on both his bikes. The Dunlop qualifiers that were on the bike when I got it used to slide under acceleration of off roundabouts, with these and now I've tweaked the suspension I don't get that problem.
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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I guess it comes down to whether you can genuinely ride fast enough and in suitable conditions to make super sticky stuff work. Not just from your own ability point of view but traffic, conditions etc.
I've had Super Corsa and corsa diablo and more less sporty stuff and grip feels much the same in general use in the dry. I guess you don't really ever know if a sticky tyre saved your bacon or not and whether a less grippy tyre would have let go, it's all hypothetical without telemetry etc. But as much of our performance and confidence on the bike is in the head, I guess if a particular tyre makes you more comfortable then it's worth having.
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Tifa
Moto GP Alien I am Sparticus, only uglier Joined: 21 Apr 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1972 |
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Got to be REALLY unlucky to get a pair of crap tyres these days.
Hear guys saying a certain brand 'let go' or 'tended to slide' but 99.9999% it's down to the road surface/temps/pressures etc... Unless you've got mad Rossi like skillz be pretty difficult to tell the difference. |
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wilko
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: Stroud Status: Offline Points: 350 |
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Makes me laugh some of the things people say about tyres. Speaking to a guy years ago at our local tyre-fitters. He asked what I wanted and I asked for Michelin Whatever Were Awesomes In About 2002. He said don’t get Michelin’s they’re sh*t I came off once on Michelin’s
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Sam.moz86
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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Nice little write up Budd.
I'm currently running the 3D Avon Storm, Not my first choice of tyre but at a bargain price of £95 for the pair I couldn't say no. Granted they wouldn't be much cop on a track day, they are brilliant for the road, heat up quick and disperse water well if caught up in a shower. I've ridden with some well branded tyres and can honestly say I haven't noticed a difference while road riding and I don't hang around. It's certainly changed my tyre buying process for the future. Take a look at some of the youtube reviews, AVON have come on a long way and can battle it at the top with some of the best of them.
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Wayneoh
Moto3 racer Joined: 16 Feb 2018 Location: North Greetwell Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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I haven`t had Avon tyres since the Roadrunners in the late 70`s which back then, when compared to the standard fit square shaped tyres on Jap bikes, were awesome...
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Wayne. 2005 RSV1000R Red.
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Sam.moz86
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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I only ever associated them with cruisers and the old mans Harley
I would 100% have another set and save the difference for an expensive Carbon Mod
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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I've tracked the Avon Storms,both original and 2nd gen Ultra's and they were better than my riding on the Sv1000s! They were also epic in the wet on the roads and lasted a hell of a long time before flatting in the middle due to prolonged dual carriageway commuting. When my SportSmart 2's are finished on the Tuono I'm straight back to good old Avon's. Thinking about it I also have Avon 3d Ultra Extremes on the track Mille and those are epic Actually I only have the Avon on the rear,still got a Bridgestone RS10 on the front as I was too tight to swap a perfectly good front to put the matching front Avon scrub on without trying the mismatch first. The bike felt so good that I never got round to fitting the matching front The RS10's were the actual set that was hustled round Rockingham by Jezza McWilliams for 6 laps for a magazine tyre test so they were nicely scrubbed in for me |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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Sam.moz86
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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Handy to know the storms will hold up to a track day Ian. I've got a set of scrubbed Extremes in the shed ready for the Donny track day, Their track reviews are amazing. I'm sure there is a video of them being reviewed against the Pirrelli somewhere. Mileage with the Storms so far is great. I think I've done over 1200 miles and they're still like new. Can't fault them.
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Ice-mille
Moto GP Alien Joined: 19 Aug 2016 Location: Iceland Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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I have always been riding Metzelers, like the feedback they give, and good tyres wet/dry. My 5cents
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Shake'n bake
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FTM
Moto GP Alien Joined: 04 Apr 2016 Location: Lovedean Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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I ride in all weathers and seasons so for me pure Sports tyres would be suicidal. I gave up on them about 5 years ago when I was going through a rear every 2 months, nowadays it's Sports/Touring tyres only and I can't say I feel any difference between them and pure sports tyres when I do get a chance to go menthol on the road.
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bladebod
World Superbike Star Joined: 08 Nov 2016 Location: Portsmouth Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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With my (limited) experience of modern bike tyres, I came to the conclusion a while back that people tend to buy what looks "whizzy" not what suits there riding requirements and (dare I say it "skill") - cat amongst pidgeons there !. All the big manufacturers road tyres offer performance WWWWWAAAAAYYYYY beyond what road bikes require, and if you think about it - they have too for liability reasons. Those who say this or that tyre is sh*t because I came off or slid etc, well thats 99.9% down to poor riding and ignoring the feedback from the bike before the incident. A tyre being taken somewhere near its design parameters gives feedback when its either not up to temperature (very common) or its over / under inflated (common) or if its worn / square etc. Some just dont hear the tyres telling them theres a problem. Shortly after (in the pub / at the burger van / in A&E) the stories of heroic riding and sh*t tyres emerge, no no no, have a think about it...(takes cover) If you need to prove something get out on track.
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Couldn't agree more
My view is that if you really NEED super stickies,better brakes etc they you are probably riding far outside the norm and either need to take it to the track or be taken off the roads before you take someone else out in your looming accident Say's someone who used to ride like a lunatic before common sense kicked me awake. A lot of people I know who ride the roads are nowhere near as good as they think they are,they just take bigger risks and mistakenly think this is talent I know, I was one of them till I got some advanced training and realised I was slow and a crap rider Now I'm slower and safer and keep the heroics for the track (where I'm still crap and slow ) Sport Touring tyres rule on our decrepit,potholed,third world roads |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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When you get a local Spaniard on a mountain road riding a BMW trailie go past your group in shorts like you are going backwards then you realise that there is much more grip potential than you ever imagined. Fair enough he knows the roads and we are touring etc but even so. On the road I think it would be very rare that the rubber is the limiting factor assuming the tyres are in decent condition generally.
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dog78
Premium Member Joined: 18 Jan 2015 Location: Winchester UK Status: Offline Points: 1508 |
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Hi, I have used Perelli SC2s and SC1 on the road, and now I use Metezlers K2 and K1s and they are different bot like a lot people say that they are Perelli with a different tread pattern, I prefer the Metezlers, one thing to bear in mind is what Perelli said to me when I was asking about tyre pressures for the K2 and 1, they said that the SC2 and SC1 aren't Road legal but the Metz are, which was worrying when they told me that it could make my insurance void.
Tbh if wasn't doing a couple of trackdays I would get a set if K3s but you can take absolute liberties with the 2s and 1s. I love the 200 tyre too |
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budd
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Oct 2014 Location: Weast Yorks Status: Offline Points: 720 |
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Supercorsas are road legal be they SC,SP or BSB, all versions have the correct DOT markings they are OE fitment on many new bikes, Panigales, MVs, and the like, whether they are suitable for road riding is a moot point. Race/track oriented tyres have a much narrower envelope of performance, operating conditions like temp, weather (rain!!!) have a massive effect on their performance much more so then regular road based tyre which are designed to operate over much wider range of conditions, so a lot of thought should be given to their use. That said on a track day or even one of those rare Sunday mornings where the roads are quiet and the sun is shining then there is nothing better then track inspired rubber. I think I'm right in saying that Pirelli and Metzeler come out of the same factory in Italy but there are differences over and above the obvious tread pattern difference. The structure of the SC is tuned more towards short circuit racing the RR is tuned towards use on the roads (road racing rather then road riding) the clue is in the name SC - short circuit, RR - road racing. I think the RRs have a slightly tougher, stiffer construction to better cope with the more variable conditions found in road racing compared to smoother more even race tracks. |
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