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efi warning and won't start!

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badapple View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 15:44
Help needed please, thought I'd take my Gen2 for a spin to check everything is Ok as she is now up for sale. She's gone into a paddy for me putting her up for sale. Started fine warmed up fine gave a few revs and she spluttered a bit. Put this down to now sporting standard cans but.running on map2. Pulled away and didn't feel or sound right, got 20 yards efi came on and cut out. Now won't start just a click. Was fine last time I rode it only difference is the standard cans. Can't be that can it. Low oil perhaps? Had plenty in and not dropped any but couldn't see any in the sight tube but was only running for 5 mins max.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 16:15
How longs it been stood up for? Possibly crappy fuel that's been pulled through?

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 16:29
Not that long, about 2 months since the last ride. I topped it right up and have been running it up fairly regularly but not ridden it. I have entered the diagnosis mode. Got EFI and code 0??

No oil showing at all with it on the side stand either but there was no low oil light when it was warming up only came on when it cut out like usual when it's on but not running.

Sounded lumpy when in neutral but normal I think in gear.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 17:37
I'm sure I can usually see a tiny bit in the tube even without starting it. Error code 0 showing alongside the EFI. I'm clutching at straws really, no reason for it to happen. Hasn't dropped any oil and had enough in before winter lay up. Only thing different is the standard exhaust. Stumped
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 18:33
If it doesn't turn over and there is no fuel pump working (hence efi warming) there is likely a power issue.
 
What voltage is the batt currently showing ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 18:39
Motobatt £50 isn from busters=easy start job done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 18:50
Spoonz the battery was low so now on charge I don't have a volt meter but it only read 12.2 on the charger. What I'm worried about is the lumpy noise when I put it in neutral and the fact it just cut out altogether. It's failed to start because of a weak battery before but never just died and thrown up warning lights.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 18:56
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Spoonz the battery was low so now on charge I don't have a volt meter but it only read 12.2 on the charger. What I'm worried about is the lumpy noise when I put it in neutral and the fact it just cut out altogether. It's failed to start because of a weak battery before but never just died and thrown up warning lights.
 
if the bike has insufficient power, systems start to shut down and the pump is one of the first to complain as it's one of the biggest power drains on the bike and the fuel pressure may have dropped
 
The stator should have enough output to power the bike even with a duff/flat batt so once charged, if it starts I would look closely at the running voltage on the dash. If it's lower that mid 13's at 4k rpm there is a problem. If it's not charging everything will draw direct from the batt and it will drain fairly quickly.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 18:57
Flat or knackered battery is my first guess. Second would be to just check the connection to the back of the dashboard. 

If the battery has been in there for a couple of years, personally, whether its knackered or not I'd stick a new £36 Yuasa battery in there and take it from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 19:05
Right Ok thanks, I'll keep it on charge tonight and see tomorrow if it starts I'll do as you said and watch the voltage. Battery isn't that old and has been trickle charged. See what tomorrow brings.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 19:16
Depending on how the bike is used and that, the batteries can go tits in a couple of years. I just get a new one every 2 years now and be done with it. A new battery is only 36 squid so its just not worth worrying about and it can save you a lot of trouble. 

Give it a good charge over night on a battery charger not a trickle charger and get the thing back in to life. That should do it. If it plays you up again just get a new battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 19:23
The normal symptom for a burnt stator /faulty charging system  assuming your battery is 100%, when you go for a spin say 10/15 miles park the bike up return try to start and the dreaded click click noise

I have owned my rsvr since new 2004 and had various makes of battery yusa been the worst bosh better .the higher cranking mottobatt has been the best so far instant start even today without the charger had it for a year now read up on reviews. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 21:37
+1

As above. You will know if its your charging system but you need to start somewhere and put a new battery on there to take that out of the equation. Batteries die after a couple of years depending on how they are used and looked after. Don't assume it at 100% they are cheaply made.

If it goes flat after that then its your charging system. Other option is to start the bike and take a reading from your connector that goes to the R/R.

I wasn't sure how you do this. So when I did mine I just put a new battery on there. When it went flat after about 20miles I then just looked at the charging system. Its a bit of pain but just one of those things that goes wrong. But its easily fixed.

Also when you are riding it, it the charging system is tits and the battery is draining down the bike will start to run rough and sound quite pokey as in the odd back fire on over run. Quite cool, but normally this is a sign that the battery is running down and there is not enough voltage in the system to control everything and its about to pack up. 10 to 1 if you start to experience this and you turn off the engine you won't be able start it again. When this happened to me I just called out the big yellow van out and got the bike home and had a look at it myself. You can be pretty certain if a new battery goes flat after fitting that your stator is fried Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 21:57
You will also find that a small amount of corrosion in those large brown connectors  will slowly kill the stator to a slow death 

People have bogged it by removing  the connector and soldering or whatever they do.

There is enough info on the internet on how to do a test with a multi meter .

Chances that we are in the deepest winter and its more likely its the battery.
so count yourself lucky.
So consider yourself lucky this time and for future ref pack out those brown conectors with electrical grease.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 22:05
Originally posted by markrsvr15 markrsvr15 wrote:

Had a yuasa battery in mine for two years now no problem ybx14 on tickle never had a problem can't see that been worst battery only ride it 5 6 times a year so must be one of the best battery's out there

I think thats what I have got and mines still going strong as well.  I don't think they are that bad either. Not for the money. Bike starts, lights work, battery doesn't go flat. The Yuasa is a a lead acid battery and I don't think you can go wrong with a lead acid.

i've tried gel and I won't have another one and AGM. The AGM was alright to be fair but not as reliable as a normal lead acid. Only thing with lead acid is they can be messy but these new Yuasa are sealed but have a valve on them which lets gasses out and in but no acid. Mine has not leaked yet any road. After a while, when they do get a bit old and tired, you just get another one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 22:11
It all sounds like you could be right the symptoms are spot on. Can't believe she's decided to play up the day I put it up for sale!!! In the 6/7 years I've had it I've never had any charging issues or touched the brown connectors. Looks like that is about to change. Really bad timing with the kids off next week. Cold.evening in the garage awaits. Thanks everyone no doubt I'll be asking more questions as electrics are not my strong point.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 00:14
That brown connector is rubbish. Some models actually have one half way down as well. Its between the cylinders. Better off soldering those wires together and cutting out that connector if you have one.

This is the brown connector mod that I do. It looks a bit cheap and chippy (well actually, it is cheap Smile) but it works. I cut out the brown connector. You can reconnect the wires in any order but if you want to keep them the same it good practice.

I just tinned the ends of the cables long enough so that they could be terminated under both connector screws. Then squashed them flat with a pair of vice grips to spade like connector shape. Sprayed them with electrical grease, then stuck them in to a big chock block securing the connectors underneath both screws and then filled the chock block up with electrical contact grease. Cheap and chippy but don't think you could get a better electrical contact than that Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 00:31
I use this stuff on all my connectors. Get some contact cleaner from anywhere, even Halfords sell stuff like that, then put this stuff on. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 09:10
O. I definitatly have a problem. Fired the bike up just now, started no problem let it warm up. Was only reading 11v on idle rising to 11.6 at 4000rpm. Didn't rise any higher with more revs but did drop to 10volts when idling.once I turned it off it wouldnt start just a click. Also sounds very rough in neutral like a knocking banging coming from the clutch side of the engine which goes as soon as I pull the clutch in. Is this all conclusive of a knackered stator or do I have multiple problems?
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 09:20
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

O. I definitatly have a problem. Fired the bike up just now, started no problem let it warm up. Was only reading 11v on idle rising to 11.6 at 4000rpm. Didn't rise any higher with more revs but did drop to 10volts when idling.once I turned it off it wouldnt start just a click. Also sounds very rough in neutral like a knocking banging coming from the clutch side of the engine which goes as soon as I pull the clutch in. Is this all conclusive of a knackered stator or do I have multiple problems?
 
 
I thought that would be the case based on what you said yesterday.

Unless you have a very bad connection somewhere it sounds like the stator is fubar but measure with a meter the output you have across each winding on the 3 yellow wires. Measure in pairs in AC volts.
 
Chances are the oil will be cooked too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 09:33
Thanks for the quick reply spoonz, I'm not sure how to check the connection. Where are the wires? Is it fairing off job? I'm probably going to have to change the oil aswell I assume would that be the knocking noise? What is the cost of a new stator and is it a griff job. He is coming to mine in two weeks to sort my new one out but not sure if he will have the time to fix this one aswell. I think I'll call him later and see what he says. Really do without this someone called this morning to view it ,, obobviously had to cancel that.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 09:45
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply spoonz, I'm not sure how to check the connection. Where are the wires? Is it fairing off job? I'm probably going to have to change the oil aswell I assume would that be the knocking noise? What is the cost of a new stator and is it a griff job. He is coming to mine in two weeks to sort my new one out but not sure if he will have the time to fix this one aswell. I think I'll call him later and see what he says. Really do without this someone called this morning to view it ,, obobviously had to cancel that.
 
Assuming the wiring has not been modded there should be 3 yellow wires running between the cylinders from left side to right with a brown connector on the right side. Measure there, in pairs (1,2 -1,3 -2,3) on Ac volts. One pair will usually be significantly different. 

If the brown connector is melted etc obviously bypass that first as it may be the problem.  Clutch chatter is probably just normal for a cold bike and not helped if the oil is black and horrid.
 
Changing the stator is not a big deal and I'm sure Griff can do it if you warn him in advance. Chances are it was failing long before you put the bike away. Once the stator develops a hot spot it's only a matter of time. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 09:54
Brilliant info thank you so much you are the man. It's funny that you say it was on its way out as I was having idle issues towards the end of last year but thought it was the sensor in the airbox as it was filthy. Beginning to think this was also the culprit. I'll have to go and buy a meter this week no doubt it will come in handy in the future.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 10:36
Thanks Andy wondered what everyone was on about with electrical grease I'll get some, as said I'm a total novice with electrics but looks like I'm going to be learning fast if I want to get this bike sold. Cheers bud.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 13:46
I had exactly the same symptoms, and problem, with mine. Trouble was, I was in Spain! Cost me 500 euros to get it to Santander!! I replaced the stator myself, its straightforward. I also replaced the solenoid, and got a new battery. I also cut out the brown connector and soldered the cables together. Not had a problem since. (touch wood!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 18:39
Ah that is seriously unlucky! I'm pretty confident a new battery and stator plus the 150 solenoid should have her back up and running...... And back up for sale! At least I was at home when it went. Thanks for the reply makes me feel much happier that I'm on the right path.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 09:35
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply spoonz, I'm not sure how to check the connection. Where are the wires? Is it fairing off job? I'm probably going to have to change the oil aswell I assume would that be the knocking noise? What is the cost of a new stator and is it a griff job. He is coming to mine in two weeks to sort my new one out but not sure if he will have the time to fix this one aswell. I think I'll call him later and see what he says. Really do without this someone called this morning to view it ,, obobviously had to cancel that.

 
Assuming the wiring has not been modded there should be 3 yellow wires running between the cylinders from left side to right with a brown connector on the right side. Measure there, in pairs (1,2 -1,3 -2,3) on Ac volts. One pair will usually be significantly different. 

If the brown connector is melted etc obviously bypass that first as it may be the problem.  Clutch chatter is probably just normal for a cold bike and not helped if the oil is black and horrid.
 
Changing the stator is not a big deal and I'm sure Griff can do it if you warn him in advance. Chances are it was failing long before you put the bike away. Once the stator develops a hot spot it's only a matter of time. 
 

Hi spoonz, I've got hold of a meter and wrestled the fairing off after the wellnut decided to not come out. Do I need the engine on to test? If so what revs? The connector looks fine no damage or melting. If I get a difference between the wires does that mean a new stator and is there anything else to check whilst I'm at it? Sorry for the novice questions.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 11:04
Yes engine running and measure the pairs on AC volts. officially the test is at 4k rpm but if one winding is down the voltage will likely be significantly different on one pair at any revs.
 
It should be about 50-60v ish ac on each pair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 14:22
Brilliant thanks ill post the results tomorrow once I'm free to get out to the garage and check.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 21:13
I didn't hear any noises from my stator when it went faulty. When the battery went flat and then went flat again. I put a new one in. When that went flat I took the flywheel cover off. Its easy to do and doesn't take long to check if the stator is ok. You can stick the meter probes down the side of the brown connector and see if you got any juice coming out of the stator. But I just figured that it was the stator after the new battery went flat.

Any road, when I got the cover off my stator was toast. The stator had melted and the flywheel was full of burnt lacker. I had to clean it out with petrol. I also flushed the engine through with new oil and a new filter after I fitted the new stator. 

I just rewound mine with less turns and thicker wire so it produced around 370w then put the compfire on there


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