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2004 RSV Factory won't start, help!!!

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Seeker 77 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 12:57

So, I'm uploading a video of the symptoms to youtube as I type, but in essence the problem I am having is that the bike wont start, even from jump leads.

The bike died at the petrol station this morning with all the symptoms of a flat battery - solenoid clicking and lights flashing on and off when hitting the starter.  Jumped it from my wife's car, bike starts no dramas.  As I am riding it home I look at the voltage readout and it is showing between 10-11 volts.  Get home, switch off, try and restart and nothing.  Now wont even jump from the car despite showing 13.1v on the dash readout when connected to the car.

So far I have checked all of the fuses and they are fine.  There is a sealed relay on the back of the battery cover that I cant open, but which rattles loudly when you shake it!  Should it do that!!?  Could that be part of the problem or an unrelated issue?  Or is it just meant to do that!!

Was supposed to be off to the Nurburgring this weekend so need to move quickly I am going to make the trip!!

Any help greatly appreciated!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:03
I'm expecting someone to say regulator/rectifier but just want to make sure there isn't some other diagnosis first before I order one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nhumphreys7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:06

That box you are shaking sounds like the tip over switch!! If thats fitted upside down it will make the ecu think the bike is tipped over and wont start.

It does sound like you stator might be fried if its not charging, loads of write ups on here about how to check.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:07
Cheers mate, searching now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:31
Put a meter across each pair of stator wires (on AC) and run the bike. You will soon see if a winding is down as there will be little output across one pair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:42

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Put a meter across each pair of stator wires (on AC) and run the bike. You will soon see if a winding is down as there will be little output across one pair.

And if the bike won't start.........!?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8-y8K14rhk&list=UUJ31o-zeIela6oYrJjSS7Mw

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:53
Video link above is to a youtube video of me trying to jump the bike!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 13:58
It might show in a resistance reading if it has failed bad enough. Each phase should read almost identical at between about 1 or 2 ohms, any at 0 or well below 1 have shorted.  The voltage is a much clearer test if you meter is not accurate.
 
Garin on here had his fail the other week and on his meter, resistance didn't really show a clear fault due to his meter not having a low enough range but on Ac it clearly did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:00
The bike is not turnng over fast enough in the vid to fire.

Run the car with the jump leads connected to the bike batt for 10 mins to put some charge back into it and try again or use a batt charger if you have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:09
Cheers Spoonz, I will give that a go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:35

Ok so connected it to the car for 10 mins and the bike started fine - with a bit of blue smoke..........

Bike ran fine but the dash was reading 11.9 - 12.2 with the headlights disconnected, and 11.2 with them lit up. 

The trouble is I have no idea how to check the 'phases' or even where the 'stator' is.  I know I should, but I don't!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:37
Bike also managed to start again off the battery, after I shut it down, so it is just about holding its charge.  The Battery is a YTX12-BS if that helps!?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:47
Is the battery new or been tested,if it's gone it won't hold a charge anyway?

Check stator
RHS Fairing off brown plug under Reg/Rec 3 yellow wires going into it (check yr bike has the middle brown plug removed from between cylinders/under throttle bodies as it gets very HOT N MELTS!
Remove n the check as spoonz said between each connector in pairs 1-2,2-3,1-3 I think. There is a post on here somewhere with very good instructions

The YTX14 is the battery you want
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:52
Pull the right side panel off. Running through between the cylinders should be 3 yellow wires that then run up the side of the motor to the reg which is further up on the right side of the motor.
 
depending on the year of your bike there will either be a brown plug near the cylinders or at the reg. Pull that apart and then start the bike. Measure across each pair on ac volts with the meter (wire 1-2 2-3 1-3) and you will likely find 2 pairs will be about 50 - 60v and one will be down.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:52
Warnz beat me too it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 14:55
Brownie points for pic's tho Spoonz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 15:02
Spoonz knows his stuff as bird already mentioned. Your brown plug is almost certainly going to be the issue. As also mentioned get a bigger battery as if it's sluggish you can damage your sprang and then you will be even more annoyed.
Great video btw I love the tip over switch bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 15:18

Thanks all, I shall attack the issue in the next hour or so.


Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Great video btw I love the tip over switch bit.

Feeling like such a noob.........Embarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 15:49
Not at all. You prepared to have a tinker where as many would just phone up a shop and send it there. That's why the people on this forum are great. Lots of tinkerers so if anyone feels they can't do something or need help someone will be along to put you straight.
I've owned two aprilia so both of which I have taken apart and improved/repaired. Never bothered with any of my other bikes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2014 at 19:27
Multimeter battery dead, first thing to do tomorrow morning then! Thanks for all of your hints and tips, much appreciated you taking the time out to help out a fellow rider
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 12:38
F*^%ing threaders.

Jumped the bike again, it died overnight clearly. Checked the voltages coming out of the three connectors and nothing at all was coming out of them! Checked the resistances as well and they were all over the place. Initially all 26, then 10, then nothing at all. Realised that the cable coming out of there engine with the three yellow wire inside was bent and when you moved it about the resistance values changed. So, cut the connector (and didn't bit of wire) out altogether (as seen in other mods) and connected the cables together - but only after looking away and forgetting which cables went to which connectors :-(

I assume that it doesn't matter which cable goes to which connector in the reg/rect!??? Anyways, feeling apprehensive I started her up and got 12.63 across the battery terminals and 12.2 on the dash - which was at least an improvement over yesterday, this dropped to 11.5 though. Now completely flummoxed as to where to go next. Replace stator and reg/rct? Garage? Do I need a new loom to get my wires in the right order? Does it matter?

Help again!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 12:53

Wire order doesn't matter.

What Ac volts do you get measuring onto the wires now the connector is off ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 13:08
I will go and check in a minute, just praying for it to catch fire at the moment..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 13:23
Originally posted by Seeker 77 Seeker 77 wrote:

I will go and check in a minute, just praying for it to catch fire at the moment..........
 
If you are measuring in AC volts and across the pairs (not to ground) then you should get an accurate reading that will reveal all. Assuming you meter is not a 5 euro chinese wong poo ching accurate to within 200 volts at 7500 feet and no where else.

It's highly likely that the stator is toast but would be nice to prove it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 19:49
No voltage at all, not even a flicker on my Gunson's multimeter. There is, however, some silicon around the top of the stator cover, suggesting that this ain't the first time this problem has occurred.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 20:10
If your battery is 100% and your solenoid is spot on, it is more than likely your stator has burnt in the oven,( charge is dropping) you can get misfiring when going along sometimes. I take it its a 04 model, very common fault, not to expensive .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 20:12
Thinking about trying to find an improved replacement, does such a thing exist?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 20:17
Most of the after market replacement have improved thanks to me speak to electrix world they sell for around £90.00.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seeker 77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 20:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 20:50
yes it been uprated with a years gurantee . 
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