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Flipping AP rearsets to get knees in tank

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    Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 20:01
Hi,

New forum member here. And new rider - I passed my test in May 2017 and bought my 2003 Gen 1 the next week. Had a great time riding the Dales last summer and now that I'm booked in for a day at Cadwell in April I want to get the bike handling and feeling as well as I can before then.

I'm 6'6" so I have a bit of trouble getting my legs in behind the fairing. Sitting in the centre or against the tank my knees lock in really well to the tank. It feels secure but also fixed and like I can't move. Using the back brake or changing gears means I sometimes need to stick my knee out sideways to clear the lip at the top of the tank. Also, I can't slide back in the seat to get into a tuck because my knees get jammed against the top of the tank.

The bike came with AP rearsets that are set to the lowest and furthest back position. I've read about people flipping the plates to give adjustment down instead of up. But there isn't any room on the gear side lower fairing to go down any further. The exhaust shroud on the brake side looks to have enough room though.

Anyone who has flipped their AP rearsets, did you take a knife to your lower fairing to cut out some clearance?

Also, does anyone know if lowering the rearsets further is the way to go to give my lower legs more headroom? I don't expect to be dragging knees for a long while yet but will I eventually run into clearance issues and start scraping pegs if they go up to 50mm lower?

Sorry for the lengthy first post and thanks in advance!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 20:20
Someone on here also had a seat made with more foam to grab and inch or two


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 20:52
I'm also 6ft 6 tall, I used to have the AP rear sets on my Tuono Racing and swapped them around around.
Take the left hand one off and turn it upside down and put on the right hand side and vice a versa. It does work but you have to play around with rear brake plunger and cut it down from what I remember.

It did make it better

I now have a Gen 1 Mille and it came with Harris rears and now there is loads of room for more adjustment and is much better, but it does use the standard back brake set up.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 20:55
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

Someone on here also had a seat made with more foam to grab and inch or two


Yeah good idea. That would hopefully point my knee down enough to offset the extra height. Will give that a go tomorrow with some cardboard or something.

I also wondered about raising the tank a bit. Raisers and longer screws. I haven't lifted the tank yet so I don't know how possible that is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 21:08
Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

I'm also 6ft 6 tall, I used to have the AP rear sets on my Tuono Racing and swapped them around around.
Take the left hand one off and turn it upside down and put on the right hand side and vice a versa. It does work but you have to play around with rear brake plunger and cut it down from what I remember.

It did make it better

I now have a Gen 1 Mille and it came with Harris rears and now there is loads of room for more adjustment and is much better, but it does use the standard back brake set up.



That's helpful, thanks.

How have you set your Mille rearsets? Down and back?

Can you remember what you did with the brake plunger? The master cylinder looks to be fixed to the rearsets so I thought it would all move as one piece..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 22:18
To be honest I haven't really set these footrests up yet as I only got the bike on Christmas Eve and just sat on it and I've taking it apart since.

I think the problem I had was with the brake leaver hitting the exhaust and I had to cut down the plunger that fits to the rose joint. It was a few years ago, I'll have look at some pictures and see if I ca figure it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 22:28
I did the same mod. I'm not as tall as you but still had issues with the legs being trapped in position. It's good to be able to lock in but you do need to be able move when you want to.

When you fit the AP rearsets the rear master cylinder is moved from it's original position to be mounted on the rearsets. It's done like that to improve the rear brake as in it's standard position it is too low down (Below the caliper) and gets heat soak from the engine.

You just adjust the brake plunger to suit where the brake lever ends up after you have set everything to suit your riding position.  As you say it may not need much - if anything - depending upon how you set them up.

This is what I did with mine. Note I fitted and RSV4 master cylinder rather than using the original as this has an integrated reservoir which I thought was a neater solution.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 23:17
Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

To be honest I haven't really set these footrests up yet as I only got the bike on Christmas Eve and just sat on it and I've taking it apart since.

I think the problem I had was with the brake leaver hitting the exhaust and I had to cut down the plunger that fits to the rose joint. It was a few years ago, I'll have look at some pictures and see if I ca figure it out.


I'll have to try swap the plates over like you said and see if I can get away without needing to cut the plunger down. At this point my main concern is the lower fairing on the gear side but the brake side may end up being more fiddly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 23:40
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

I did the same mod. I'm not as tall as you but still had issues with the legs being trapped in position. It's could to be able to lock in but you do need to be able move when you want to.

When you fit the AP rearsets the rear master cylinder is moved from it's original position to be mounted on the rearsets. It's done like that to improve the rear brake as in it's standard position it is too low down (Below the caliper) and gets heat soak from the engine.

You just adjust the brake plunger to suit where the brake lever ends up after you have set everything to suit your riding position.  As you say it may not need much - if anything - depending upon how you set them up.

This is what I did with mine. Note I fitted and RSV4 master cylinder rather than using the original as this has an integrated reservoir which I thought was a neater solution.









I'm adjusting it after a change in angle rather than change in position? You have the brake pedal nicely below the peg. I'm going to try do the same so it's in a more natural position. I'm not sure I have the travel in the master cylinder to do that though. Guess it only needs 10mm or so.



That RSV4 master caliper looks really good. A lot more solid looking than the stock plastic one.

So having moved your rearsets has the trapped in feeling gone or just improved?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 23:45

Sorry, second attempt. Hopefully you can see this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deloco7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 23:49
Sorry to hijack the thread blacklines Embarrassed

Legend88 - the RSV4 rear M/C you fitted , will any year fit or does it have to be a specific year/model?

I have a Rizoma reservoir on mine but I'd love to change the whole m/c out for a better one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote constant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 03:37
deloco i got one off a ktm sx 250 i checked the part number and they are all the same after all a back brake is a back brake no point in making different ones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deloco7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 08:18
Hi Constant,

Thanks for that. I've seen that theres a few different types that fit including various Ducati ones.

However its the type with the integrated reservoir on the m/c that I was after. I want to do away with the separate Rizoma one and I don't like the look of the HRC kit (have one but never used it).

Do the KTM ones have the integrated fluid pot?
This exhaust fetish is getting silly now....anyway lets get another one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote damo46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 09:21
Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

I'm also 6ft 6 tall, I used to have the AP rear sets on my Tuono Racing and swapped them around around.
Take the left hand one off and turn it upside down and put on the right hand side and vice a versa. It does work but you have to play around with rear brake plunger and cut it down from what I remember.

It did make it better

I now have a Gen 1 Mille and it came with Harris rears and now there is loads of room for more adjustment and is much better, but it does use the standard back brake set up.



Thats interesting in relation to the Harris rearsets, I have those on my gen1 tuono, I measured them as best I could against the standard pegs and based on my "maybe not 100% accurate" measurements the Harris pegs in there lowest position were only about 15mm lower than the standard. I have often been thinking of upgrading to an AP set of rearsets but not sure would it be much more of a gain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote constant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 09:34
yes it's the integrated type
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deloco7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 09:39
Thanks Constant,

Much appreciated for the info - I'll get searching t'internet Thumbs Up

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This exhaust fetish is getting silly now....anyway lets get another one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 09:40
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:


So having moved your rearsets has the trapped in feeling gone or just improved?


Absolutely. And as you say it was difficult to use the back brake as your leg couldn't move but now it's no problem at all.


Originally posted by deloco7 deloco7 wrote:

Legend88 - the RSV4 rear M/C you fitted , will any year fit or does it have to be a specific year/model?


Yes, as said above any year will do and they are used on other bikes as well. The important thing thing is the centre distance between the mounting bolts.


Originally posted by damo46 damo46 wrote:

I have often been thinking of upgrading to an AP set of rearsets but not sure would it be much more of a gain.


I got about 50mm lower on mine with the AP rearsets when I turned the plates upside down. Mines a Gen1 midn and
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 10:04
Great, thanks legend. I'll go with lowering the rearsets first, then look at the seat if needed.

Do you have a picture of the gear side rearset? Did you have to cut it down to fit the rearsets 50mm lower? Also, do you worry about grinding pegs now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 10:34
I will have a look for a pic and if not I  will take one when I get the chance. I didn't need to cut the bellypan fairng at all. If it's the rod you are thinking about it fits neatly just on the outside of the bellypan. Mine's a 2001 so I think the bellypan should be the same on yours.

Grinding the pegs? I never do trackdays and I'm not fast enough to worry about that!  LOL  I have thought about but I have never come across the issue. I understand your concern though as being fixed rather than hinged it is more likely that a peg will dig in and lift the bike if they do ground out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 12:17
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

I will have a look for a pic and if not I  will take one when I get the chance. I didn't need to cut the bellypan fairng at all. If it's the rod you are thinking about it fits neatly just on the outside of the bellypan. Mine's a 2001 so I think the bellypan should be the same on yours.

Grinding the pegs? I never do trackdays and I'm not fast enough to worry about that!  LOL  I have thought about but I have never come across the issue. I understand your concern though as being fixed rather than hinged it is more likely that a peg will dig in and lift the bike if they do ground out.


It's the actual bottom of the rearset I'm thinking about. I'll take a picture later to show you what I mean.

Ha me neither. I think my bike hits greater lean angles on it's little side stand than it does with me taking it round corners.

I'm not very inexperienced right now but am working on my riding skills. I didn't want to find a comfortable position now just to find later I'm scraping the pegs. I guess that wouldn't be a bad problem to have in some ways and I could always jack the ride height right up or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 12:42
Scraping pegs??
I did eventually wear the little peg bit down on the stand until it broke off!!

I think if you were to get the pegs down it would be followed closely by your arse!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 13:10
Originally posted by Jollygiant Jollygiant wrote:

Scraping pegs??
I did eventually wear the little peg bit down on the stand until it broke off!!

I think if you were to get the pegs down it would be followed closely by your arse!



Just what I wanted to hear! Thanks.

Motivational picture too. If you grinded off the stand lever thing you must have been well over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 13:12


It's hard to get a good shot but there's not much room for the rearset plate to go lower and the peg itself isn't too far from fouling the fairing.

You can see how the gear lever is already rubbing on the fairing as it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 08:44
Originally posted by damo46 damo46 wrote:


Thats interesting in relation to the Harris rearsets, I have those on my gen1 tuono, I measured them as best I could against the standard pegs and based on my "maybe not 100% accurate" measurements the Harris pegs in there lowest position were only about 15mm lower than the standard. I have often been thinking of upgrading to an AP set of rearsets but not sure would it be much more of a gain.


I started playing with the rearsets last night after the MOT was out the way and I'd just finished rigging up LED lighting in my garage from my old bike battery.

There looks to be a huge amount of adjustment on the AP rearsets. I don't know what the standard peg height is but there is an inch of adjustment in height on the plate. Flipping them gives even more. Upside down, the highest setting is an inch lower than the lowest setting right way up.

With the back end on a paddock stand, the range in height is 15" to 16", then 17" to 18" off the ground. So a range of 3" although there's an inch in the middle you can't set it to.

The range is great but as I expected, the fairing is starting to be the issue now. I'll have more of a play with it and report back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 19:26
Managed to make clearance for the lowered rearsets by tucking the fairing behind them. Can't get the supporting bolts back in as they don't line up anymore but they aren't going anywhere. And I hope the left side doesn't get pushed into the chain with the swingarm moving up and down.

left side

right side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 19:30
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

I will have a look for a pic and if not I  will take one when I get the chance. I didn't need to cut the bellypan fairng at all. If it's the rod you are thinking about it fits neatly just on the outside of the bellypan. Mine's a 2001 so I think the bellypan should be the same on yours.


Think I see what you mean about this now. There's no way I can bring the master cylinder down enough to bolt back on because the rod hits the exhaust.



Did you just saw this rod thing down until it fit? Would need probably at least 15mm removing from the looks of it.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 19:53
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:



Think I see what you mean about this now. There's no way I can bring the master cylinder down enough to bolt back on because the rod hits the exhaust.



Did you just saw this rod thing down until it fit? Would need probably at least 15mm removing from the looks of it.




Yup thats what you have to do. 
I took about 10mm off to start with and then a few mm at a time until it fitted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 20:17
Ok I'll give it a go thanks. First bike so new to fettling and don't want to create uneccesary costs for myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 21:38
I think I may have had to leave the nut off. I'll try and find a picture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jollygiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 21:56
Here we go, not brilliant but you can see how short it has to be.


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