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EFI Fault, Diag 1 , Will not Start

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DougW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: EFI Fault, Diag 1 , Will not Start
    Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 11:02
Test rode a mates new to him 2003 Gen 1 RSVR.

Back suspension link collapsed, luckily at low speed in a straight line.

The back tyre removed most of the insulation on a section of the wiring loom to the ecu and thoughtfully shorted most of them together , causing engine to stop.

I work with industrial control systems and started out my working life decades ago as an instrument/electronics technician , so I volunteered to repair the loom.

None of the wires where severed , just stripped bare of insulation , so I removed the damaged sections and replaced them one by one with new cable ( don`t want to go into the pros/cons of crimp vs solder at the moment !).
So I am fairly confident the loom is back to OK.

All fuses checked, none blew, and Stop relay is energised

It will not start, dash flicks from cold to "EFI". Fuel pump never runs.

Connecting the diagnostic plug, dash shows DIAG - 1, no other fault code.

Grounding the wire from the ECU to the fuel pump relay causes the relay to energise and pump to run.

Cranking the engine with the fuel pump running, no signs of it firing, so probably not sparking or injecting either.

An internet search shows someone else had the same symptoms after swapping an EPROM and putting it in the wrong way, so I am thinking that shorting the wires to the ECU may have killed it.

Anyone any thoughts ? I am wondering if someone like AP workshops have a bike they could try the ECU on, to test it. I am wary of trying a good ECU on this bike in case there is a fault that could damage another ECU.

PS thanks to Griff for pointing an Aprilia knows nothing to the correct bike and providing a manual.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 11:49
I'm no electrician, but by the sounds of it the ECU has been fried.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 13:50
Assuming all the ducks are in a row with the safety circuit ( tip over switch etc) then I suspect it’s either the ecu or possibly the eeprom itself could have been spiked.  The ecu appears alive enough to know the tps position at least. Does the -1 change if you alter the throttle position ?  As you suggest it’s probably going to require substitution to verify where your at with the ecu etc.  

Griff owns a gen1 himself which is usually at the shop so he will have access to one even if there are none in his stock. Whether he has a ideal window on an already stripped bike to verify your ecu, I couldn’t say.  I’m happy to stick it in my bike if you run out of other options and are happy to risk posting it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 15:35
if you want to try just an eprom i have a spare one laying around i can post it to you for free ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2021 at 16:18
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Assuming all the ducks are in a row with the safety circuit ( tip over switch etc) then I suspect it’s either the ecu or possibly the eeprom itself could have been spiked.  The ecu appears alive enough to know the tps position at least. Does the -1 change if you alter the throttle position ?  As you suggest it’s probably going to require substitution to verify where your at with the ecu etc.  

Griff owns a gen1 himself which is usually at the shop so he will have access to one even if there are none in his stock. Whether he has a ideal window on an already stripped bike to verify your ecu, I couldn’t say.  I’m happy to stick it in my bike if you run out of other options and are happy to risk posting it. 

-1 never changes with throttle or anything else I have tried.

Owner mate is keen to know if it sparks, I doubt it, but is a fairly easy check to get more info on the fault.

Thanks for all the replies and offers of help, it might take me a few days to check for a spark, lucky enough to be still working full time, and cannot actually get in the garage to get at the RSVR with out dragging a moped, pushbike and my current patient, a badly carburating 350LC out of the way. Got that I got a year ago as a complete wreck and just got it through an MOT after replacing and fixing just about everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2021 at 13:32
No Spark.

Many thanks to RedRatBike another CPU is on its way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 21:20
Thanks to RedRatBike I now have another ECU, many thanks.

However, it came with no eprom.

Fitting the eprom from the original ECU (Which is on a piggy back board) the bike displays exactly the same symptoms, same Diag -1 and no error code when diagnostic connector plugged in.

Re fitting the original  ECU without the eprom, it also behaves exactly the same.

So looks like the eprom or piggy back board it sits on has died ?

( I did fit the eprom the right way and take static precautions, used to work on stuff like this for a living)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2021 at 21:32
Well I guess it’s one more thing to remove from the list of possibles so it is a step forward in the scheme of things. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 16:49
Originally posted by DougW DougW wrote:

Thanks to RedRatBike I now have another ECU, many thanks.

However, it came with no eprom.

Fitting the eprom from the original ECU (Which is on a piggy back board) the bike displays exactly the same symptoms, same Diag -1 and no error code when diagnostic connector plugged in.

Re fitting the original  ECU without the eprom, it also behaves exactly the same.

So looks like the eprom or piggy back board it sits on has died ?

( I did fit the eprom the right way and take static precautions, used to work on stuff like this for a living)
Hi Doug,

i included an eprom separate  in a little red plastic case ? did you not find it ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 18:14
Isn’t the daughter board or piggy back redundant if you use the oem chip? 
Only times I’ve seen the daughter board was on the rsv titanium chip though I’m sure there is others that require it 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 12:14
Yes daughter board only needed for after market chip, according to web lore.

Asked the owner to see if he has the original chip we can try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 07:17
Originally posted by DougW DougW wrote:

Yes daughter board only needed for after market chip, according to web lore.

Asked the owner to see if he has the original chip we can try.
did you see my post above a
i sent the eprom in a little red plastic protector ???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 07:27
Assuming yours doesn’t need the board mark if it’s found ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 08:22
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

Originally posted by DougW DougW wrote:

Yes daughter board only needed for after market chip, according to web lore.

Asked the owner to see if he has the original chip we can try.
did you see my post above a
i sent the eprom in a little red plastic protector ???

Damm.

Didn't see it .

Just been bin diving and located the packaging, inside was a little red plastic protector .

Yes !

But its empty.

Doh.

No idea how I have managed to loose something I did`t know I had tucked into packaging between dining room/office table and bin , but despite all the odds I have Confused  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 08:24
guess what i just went out to the car and found the chip


it must have fallen out of the protector my end!!!

apologies 

i’ll post it up


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 08:25
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Assuming yours doesn’t need the board mark if it’s found ? 
found it and no it’s just a standard chip


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 10:11
Brilliant, many thanks !


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2021 at 18:41
im on the edge of my seat, how did this turn out boys.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2021 at 11:46
Is it cured ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 12:46
Nope, no eprom, going to contact APPerformance and see if they can fit an EPROM and test the ECU on another bike.

Need the garage space !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 17:53
It Runs !

Many Thanks to Griff at Aprilia Performance .

ECU checked out as fine , EPROM dead.

New EPROM from Griff, fired up straight away.

(Special mention to my lad Matt, who took the ECU`s to Griff, and fitted the ECU back in the bike )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 18:45
glad to hear, so what are you plans for it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 20:10
Originally posted by JimGreezy JimGreezy wrote:

glad to hear, so what are you plans for it?

My mate wants it back !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 20:14
Much as I like the Aprilia, the garage is a bit full of bikes, GSXR11, TL1000R , trail bike, mx , enduro and a moped, its full without the Aprilia in , can`t get to the lathe and no space to work on any of the bikes without dragging a couple out.
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