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Carbon fibre fuel tanks..

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redratbike View Drop Down
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The Collector Messiah

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 13:23
in fact I have posted reminders in the falco section and rs250 section as well


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 16:14
Depending on the final cost i'd be interested in one for a Gen 2

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedjunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 17:10
The price is in the posts Chris. £900 - 1k
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 17:24
It is a good price


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 22:39
That is a good price.
All the carbon one's iv found are all nearer 3000 mark.also could the airbox cavity be made larger? or would that mess
Fueling up? Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 22:46
If you have an evo or hooked kit on you don't need a bigger airbox.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 22:53
I have evolved style
Just a little thought I had if the cavity was larger would it have any more benefit that all,more than happy the way it is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2018 at 22:53
Evo style
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobertyBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 08:33
How resistant to Ethanol would these tanks be as I've heard carbon doesn't react well. I had a carbon tank on my old Speed Triple and coated it with Caswel to make sure.

Currently on the fence about a Gen2 tank... Hmm 🤔 I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 09:27
I searched this and found they no different to our plastic tank and regarding caswel various results with contraction/expansion over time good old ethanol makes me hangry need to feed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 10:10
Search more powers posts I am sure he has posted up about this already


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 10:22
Originally posted by RobertyBob RobertyBob wrote:

How resistant to Ethanol would these tanks be as I've heard carbon doesn't react well. I had a carbon tank on my old Speed Triple and coated it with Caswel to make sure.

Currently on the fence about a Gen2 tank... Hmm 🤔 I


OK good question.

So to be 100% clear as Diablo will confirm. (Sadly)..

Most Carbon tanks you see sold from small companies, I even include QB Carbon in this too, use the same resins which they make their other parts from which is usually polyester resin. Which as you can tell from its name is basically a plastic resin and contains styrene which is no better than any plastic tank and usually worse as it is much thinner as the carbon and in some cases a mixture of carbon for the surface layer then glass for the backing layers is what gives it strength. So the fuel and ethanol can and does attack the polyester.  You can coat it with Caswell sealer but it will not fully bond to polyester and it will peel away over time. I have a tank here where that happened and it also was attacked enough to leak in about 10 or 12 locations where it was bonded together. 

So this is where I come in.....
I spent over a year finding a pre-preg carbon which works without an autoclave. Once I found a material which works (I helped develop the material) I know it contains a special chemical resistant resin as part of its chemistry. I also spoke to numerous companies about a sealer to then add a layer of a resin which will stop ethanol attack fully. So I found a company who supply a chemical resistant epoxy resin which is the same as used in the epoxy that makes up the pre-preg carbon. As both are epoxy the sealer does fully bond with the pre-preg so there it no peeling of the sealer issues. The same resin is used to bond the shell to the base so there is no issue of the fuel attacking the area where the shell and base are bonded too. 

I have made 29 Aprilia RS250 tanks and 10 Aprilia Falco tanks over the past couple of years and have not had any issues with tanks being attacked with ethanol. But then I spent 6 months finding the correct sealer to use and adhesive. All of the companies who make tanks that are prone for leaking are making the tanks to maximise profit. Polyester resins are about £3 to £4 per kilo. Dry carbon cloth is the expensive bit so most use layers of glass fibre behind the carbon to bulk up the tank which costs about £2.50 per metre. The cost in materials for a 4 kilo polyester tank is £8.00 for 2 kilos of resin, £17 for the layer of carbon and £25 for the glass a total cost of about £50 in materials. Now for pre-preg carbon the sealer and adhesive is £90.00 per kilo and I use 300gr in total (£30.00) The carbon price is £65.00 per meter and each meter is 245 grams. So a typical Falco tank (similar size to the RSV) is about 2kg Of that 1.7 kilos is pre-preg  (£450.00) So a leaky polyester tank costs £50 in materials and my pre-preg ones cost £480.00 in materials.  I make my parts to give me a wage and not maximise what I can get because if I used the same profit percentage I would be charging 10 times as much. Or be at least £430 more expensive to just get the same amount in my pocket... 

I do my stuff because I care about what I make and use the best materials for the job. Not just anything to make as much money as possible...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 10:29
Now that was a good read bud.seems u have worked bloody hard to get a proper product I'm interested
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 10:29
Originally posted by Speedjunkie Speedjunkie wrote:

The price is in the posts Chris. £900 - 1k

As it had been a while since the original post I wasn't sure if the price had changed, does seem like a good deal though Big smile

Chris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 10:41
Originally posted by Hangry Hangry wrote:

I searched this and found they no different to our plastic tank and regarding caswel various results with contraction/expansion over time good old ethanol makes me hangry need to feed

Pre-preg has ZERO expansion so there it no issue with the sealer breaking up and falling away from the inside like polyester.  Also the sealer resin is a part of the pre-preg chemistry so the properties they have are compatible and not a dissimilar resin with one being a styrene based resin and the other an epoxy.  Also both epoxy resins are a Phenol novolac and not a mix of Bisphenol A and Phenol Novolac types. So it is all the same base and will always be 100% compatible. As I said I spent A LOT of time doing my homework.... Haha.. I also will not tell anyone exactly what I use, who I get it from and what additives are used to get the results... You can find it all out but need to ask the right people the right questions and find the right companies to supply in a quantity which will not cost you £1000's when you only need £100's of pounds worth.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2018 at 13:23
Don't blame you not telling anyone bud after all the hard work,and at a afordabl price iv just been through the ethanol thing with my tank think some overtime at work's in order defo interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fugly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 10:00
Another positive to this that I think adds value to the project is that a carbon tank is thinner in terms of the wall thickness so fuel capacity increases to the region of 24L.

Morepower will confirm if this is right or I've got it wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 09:57
If the surface area of the tank is similar to the Falco then yes there will be quite an increase in capacity. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 10:00
Just a gentle reminder. I do need to get 8 for each tank to be made.... At 3 for the Gen 1 and 4 Gen 2 tanks... As soon as I hit the magic 8 for either one I will get it to the mould maker. 

OK .... Gen 1 tanks.. 
AF1  2 Tanks
Diablo  1 Tank 

3 gen 1 tanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gen 2 Tanks

Fugly 1 Gen 2 tank. 
Speed junkie 1 Gen 2 tank.
Munky 1 tank. possibly 2 IF needed to make up the numbers. 

4 Gen 2 tanks.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tapmyhed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 11:49
Question is when? And how quickly after you get your 8?

I'm very very interested, but at the moment I'm having an extension built.  that will be finished in about 8 weeks time and I need to hang on to my dosh incase there is any creeping costs.  There shouldn't be.  I also have a secret stash of dosh for a new set of leathers.....I might use that for the tank and carry on using my old leathers, which no longer match my bike....I look like a power ranger who nicked a bike.....

I want to say YES now, but lets say I'm 70% certain I'll say yes.  I really need a tank that fits...mine has got longer and I have to pop it past the top yoke to fit!!

I could also do with the extra capacity so I can go 3 commute days between garage visits.

70% yes for me.....I'll keep an eye on this and if you get close....6 or 7, I may just say bollocks and commit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fugly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2018 at 15:09
Come on you Gen 2 boys Wink

You Gen 1 boys, you know you will want to upgrade to a Gen 2 so get a Gen 2 tank whilst you can LOLLOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 20:15
Originally posted by tapmyhed tapmyhed wrote:

Question is when? And how quickly after you get your 8?

I'm very very interested, but at the moment I'm having an extension built.  that will be finished in about 8 weeks time and I need to hang on to my dosh incase there is any creeping costs.  There shouldn't be.  I also have a secret stash of dosh for a new set of leathers.....I might use that for the tank and carry on using my old leathers, which no longer match my bike....I look like a power ranger who nicked a bike.....

I want to say YES now, but lets say I'm 70% certain I'll say yes.  I really need a tank that fits...mine has got longer and I have to pop it past the top yoke to fit!!

I could also do with the extra capacity so I can go 3 commute days between garage visits.

70% yes for me.....I'll keep an eye on this and if you get close....6 or 7, I may just say bollocks and commit.

TmH



OK so if I have 8 orders. It is a first come first served basis.. But say you want to wait for any reason then that is OK just let someone else have theirs before you. Each tank will take about 2 weeks to make if I allow for the first couple taking a little longer as I refine the lay up process. So if you are number 8 on the list that would give you about 12 to 16 weeks before yours is made. I just need a deposit to be sure all orders are 100% set in stone.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 21:38
Originally posted by Fugly Fugly wrote:

Come on you Gen 2 boys Wink

You Gen 1 boys, you know you will want to upgrade to a Gen 2 so get a Gen 2 tank whilst you can LOLLOL

why gen2’s are sh*t !!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 22:06

+1

gen 1 to ride gen 2's to push......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JZH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2018 at 23:05
Good trawling, redratbike, but the link doesn't work!

But I did see it, searched the forum, found the thread and joined this forum to put my name on the list.

So, for morepower:  JZH 1 Gen 2 tank.

Cheers,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tapmyhed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 10:53
OK, I'm in.  Let everyone know what deposit you want off them....when you have your 8.

I'll probably be middle to end of the pack.

:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 14:12
Originally posted by JZH JZH wrote:

Good trawling, redratbike, but the link doesn't work!

But I did see it, searched the forum, found the thread and joined this forum to put my name on the list.

So, for morepower:  JZH 1 Gen 2 tank.

Cheers,
apologiesConfused i'll revisit and update Thumbs Up


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 21:03
Originally posted by tapmyhed tapmyhed wrote:

OK, I'm in.  Let everyone know what deposit you want off them....when you have your 8.

I'll probably be middle to end of the pack.

:-)


Gen 2 I guess? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2018 at 21:06


OK .... Gen 1 tanks.. 
AF1  2 Tanks
Diablo  1 Tank 

3 gen 1 tanks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gen 2 Tanks

Fugly 1 Gen 2 tank. 
Speed junkie 1 Gen 2 tank.
Munky 1 tank. possibly 2 IF needed to make up the numbers. 
JZH 1 tank
5 Gen 2 tanks.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tapmyhed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2018 at 14:04
Yes...Gen 2 tank for me TapMyHed.

:-)


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