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BRAKE PROBLEMS

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OLDALL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OLDALL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BRAKE PROBLEMS
    Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 19:06
My wifes Tuono had a really crap back brake. Read all the topics and did the following. Made a heat shield for the master cylinder, fitted a banjo bolt with a bleed nipple, made sure the reservoir outlet and the plastic elbow to the cylinder were bored out to 4.5mm, took off the back caliper and held it up so the bleed nipple was the highest point, bled it all through with DOT 5 brake fluid. Now the back brake is fantastic, just like a Japan*!* bike! I reckon the problem stems from multiple causes. Standard fluid gets too hot and produces air bubbles, which are then hard to bleed from both the master cylinder and the rear caliper 'cos the bleed nipple is in a stupid place. DOT 5 fluid should prevent it happening again alond with all the foregoing. I am so impressed with the result I have now done it to my own Mille R with the same happy result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 12:41
For the later design rsv/tuono with the MC on the engine there is an Aprilia heatshield which only costs 7. With that and the race fluid/correct bleed it works fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote griff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 14:39
You do mean DOT 5.1 and not DOT 5 which is not compatible (silicone based)? Griff
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keno01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 17:46
What is this heat sheild that is referred to here. I've not heard about this. Does it connect between the master cylinder and engine casing on the right hand side and where can I get one? I'm sick and tired of this rear braking system because I like to use them a lot.[:(]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keith_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 17:49
I did spot that but didn't want to correct OLDALL... Yes, I am using DOT 5.1 [:)] Keith [8D] 2004 RSV R, Loads of mods! [img]http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2443/070302rsvr02200x129ea7.jpg[/img]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 17:51
Yes to the first question and any Aprilia dealer to the second. Part no.8133902 3.64 + vat & carriage. If you don't bleed it using high temp fluid and the correct proceedure your wasting you time though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keno01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 10:52
Spoonz, Is that part number you have shown for the heat shield and how much I might be expected to pay or are you offering a sales service? Thanks for the tip on what fluid to use. I wasn't aware that I could improve the system because I've almost given up and am planning an upgrade to remove the master cylinder from its current location and install to the rear set. I'll let you all know if I get any further with this or wait until the next machine purchase is made. I want a Factory this year so I may wait to re-engineer that rear braking system instead. Keno01.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 12:57
No i'm just advising not selling. The correct fluid and bleed technique are the critical factor. Even some 07 bikes with the heat shield have a poor back brake for that reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keno01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 17:50
Thanks Spoonz, I've got a satisfactory bleeding method for the bleedin' rear brake namely, remove seat and strap the caliper to the sub frame but, it was the advise on what fluid to use that caught my attention. Many Thanks for that. I'll get myself a heat sheild and DOT 5.1 fluid and see if I can maintain the thing for a while longer. Keno01.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrewBitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2007 at 19:41
OLDALL can you post a photo of the shield in position etc. YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LIFE......LIVE IT......RIDE APRILIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bambeno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2007 at 22:39
yeah, i would like to see pic of heat sheild. when did they start putting them on. will one go on 2004 model thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keith_A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2007 at 23:21
Guys, I had a heat shield put on mine the other month when I had my swingarm replaced under warranty....I really need to bleed my rear brake at weekend so if I remember I will take a picture & post it on here. [:)] Keith [8D] 2004 RSV R, Loads of mods! [img]http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2443/070302rsvr02200x129ea7.jpg[/img]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2007 at 23:52
make sure you bleed the caliper with the nipple uppermost and tap it to release trapped air behind the piston. If poss use race fluid which has a higher boiling point than 5.1 I used Brembo's own Race fluid which came from this site. not cheap but worth the money. Heat shield is aluminium and bolts on the existing mounting points for the M/c. It also has a hole for the overflow hose from the coolant expansion tank. The shield was standard from 06 and works on 04 onwards If you haven't already had updated parts get yourself a 4.5mm drill and drill the fluid resevoir and it's union to 4.5mm. As standard the hole is too small for the fluid to pass freely and air to rise to the resevoir. Same goes for the clutch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2007 at 18:29
Latest technical sheet from aprilia Re lack of back brake. [url]http://www.polymoog.homecall.co.uk/bits/bike/009-2007.pdf[/url]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davor41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2007 at 08:52
I did my brake yesterday. That was 3-th time and finally it's like rock now. I was trying everything, 5.1 dot fluid, bleeding like this, bleeding like that etc..... The only way that works for me was, like Spoonz said. 1. Put the caliper with the nipple uppermost. 2. Bleed. Some air will come out first, and than just fluid (but there is still air in the caliper) 3. Now tap caliper, and leave it for a while to rest, with the nipple uppermost. Try to hold the caliper all the time higher than master cylinder, and always leave it to rest for about a minute after tapping it. This make air and fluid to settle down, due to fluid viscosity. 4. Now bleed some more. Again, some air will come out first, and than just fluid. But there is still some air that would not come out no mather how much time you bleed. 5. To bleed that air out you must tap it again and leave it a while to rest. After each cycle done, your brake must be better and better. Also put some thicker peace (than brakedisk) between pads, is will minimize the space, that air could get stuck inside caliper. At the end when you get your brake solid as rock, expand the pads as much as you can, it will bleed any remaining air in master cylinder. (watch out the oil level in reservoir as it will go up when you expand pads). Put the caliper back on, top up with oil (watch out the oil level in reservoir), and that's it. Now i have perfect rear brake, with no extra costs. (no heat shield, no expensive oil, no upgraded items etc.) I hope you understand my english, and rally hope this will help someone. Davor 04 RSVR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jay g Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2007 at 15:25
Dave, this sticky is all about brake tips[:)]see page 1[;)]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matfu mille r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2007 at 09:11
Hi, In the final attempt to fix my back brake[:(!], i'm going to use your guys advice[:D]. I'm gonna bore the master cylinder out to 4.5mm, but unsure what to drill. Has asnyone got a pic to show which part i should be drilling, also is there anytghing i need to add after ive bored the said item out? Hope you can help Grip it and rip it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matfu mille r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2007 at 09:14
Oh i forgot to mention, it's for my 00 mille r, is this still apllicabe? Grip it and rip it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jblaze999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2007 at 22:02
please check out my technique for fixing your rear brake, it fixed my 2001 rsv. http://www.rsvr.net/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2700
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dirty duck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2007 at 20:52
Really good advice... well impressed.. I will have ago at mine tomorrow. Cheers, Simon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johno_quadra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2009 at 23:12
i have heard of someone putting a weight to the rear brake lever so the brake is bitting when sat away garaged. does anyone do this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2009 at 00:08
Originally posted by johno_quadra johno_quadra wrote:

i have heard of someone putting a weight to the rear brake lever so the brake is bitting when sat away garaged. does anyone do this?
 
That does work to a point. As in it eleviates the symptoms for a while but doesn't solve the fact that it has air trapped in the system which expands with heat.
 
The logic of the weight is to keep the fluid under pressure and force the air to the highest point usually. 
 
It takes persistance but if done right you can get 100% of the air out and the brake is good for sometime but it is always prone to degredation because the fluid gets cooked by the exhaust. High temp fluid helps a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johno_quadra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2009 at 00:33
i really didn't like the sound of putting a weight on the rear brake.
will be buying a protector for the master cylinder and puting high temp fluid in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 14:35
I have wrapped as much as I can of the master cylinder, resovoir and pipe work in this stuff

http://www.exhaustwrapshop.com/default.aspx (DEI Cool Tape)

My back brake has been working to the point that I have now had to change the pads !!!
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 14:47
Originally posted by kiwi_rsvr kiwi_rsvr wrote:

I have wrapped as much as I can of the master cylinder, resovoir and pipe work in this stuff

http://www.exhaustwrapshop.com/default.aspx (DEI Cool Tape)

My back brake has been working to the point that I have now had to change the pads !!!
 
A rare feat. I'm sure Aprilia have a warehouse somewhere the size of Wembley full of unused rear brake pads . Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joe 90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 21:14
longer FORWARD FACING LEVER MIGHT HELP
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Discount Ducati breakdown cover call joe 0800 998 999
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rsvr330d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2009 at 11:17
I tried the link but it failed, I too have had a few problems getting the last of the air out my rear brake, so next step for my brake is to drill out the reservoir to 4.5mm this should be ok on my 2001 RSVR shouldn't it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2009 at 14:48
Originally posted by rsvr330d rsvr330d wrote:

I tried the link but it failed, I too have had a few problems getting the last of the air out my rear brake, so next step for my brake is to drill out the reservoir to 4.5mm this should be ok on my 2001 RSVR shouldn't it?
 
Brake issues on pre 04 bikes are not quite the sane as the M/C is located differently. Drilling out the resevoir probably won't offer you anything.
 
Bleed it using the raised caliper method with fresh decent fluid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tapmyhed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2009 at 23:42
I had a chat with jimmy Fireblade the other week whilst doing a wheely school...awesome fun if anyone fancies it.  He had same issues with his mille with poor rear brakes: his answer after the bleeding issues was to change the rear disk for an 'armour' disk?  I've seen these for about 85 quids, then use EBC HH pads, his brake works like it should of done in the first place........he reckons the OEM disks are too hard in the first place so the pads never really get to grip properly.
This is my next 'mod' so will let you know how I get on, since I have moved my MC off the engine and onto SATO 2 rearsets, which has got ALL the air out now, but the disk is still crap for braking, way too much force needed to 'feel' effects at the rear wheel.  I'm also on my original rear pads....04 factory, 32,000 miles....original rear pads....not worn!!!!
 
I used to use the rear brake all the time on my VTR, but since owning the mille, my rear brake skill has been forgotten due to lack of use or lack of effect from trying to use......anyways, will keep you posted on the disk change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YELL-O R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2010 at 15:00
now i'm getting scared....you'd think for nearly $20k for a bike the back brake would work. maybe i should just stay on the Triumphs

what other common problems go with the rsvr ?
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