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Battery Thread - First week of April 2021 Edition

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    Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 15:12
Had my Shido lithium battery sat indoors next to my desk since last September. I push the button to check the charge indicator now and again and it's always been full. Stuck it back in the bike yesterday to fire it up for the first time in 6 months. No topping up with a charger, no checking voltage with multimeter. Fired instantly with cold start lever pulled right back. That's on a couple litres of old fuel that's been sat in the tank all winter too. 

Really pleased with how long it maintained it's charge. With previous batteries I'd have topped them up before starting for the first time after winter and still had my fingers crossed. 

Also, bloody hell I'd forgotten how nice the sounds and smells are. Was my last day of paternity leave and bikes hadn't really crossed my mind too much over winter. Must have missed it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 15:30
That’s good to hear 

I just dumped a Shido battery on my zx10r race bike. As has been said before it’s impressive how little they weigh. 

The Gen2 race bike has a traditional yuasa gel battery and it started without a charge in over six months no issue. The bike has no immobiliser and it’s impressive how little drain it must of experienced compared to my old road bike. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 15:35
Ah less impressive than I thought then ha. I'd lost a gel battery almost every year over winter before so I thought I was on to something. Yeah, I tried measuring the parasitic drain of the electrics and it's less than the margin of error of my multimeter. Effectively nothing. 

EDIT: My gen 1 has the factory immobiliser but no alarm connected. So like a typical road bike really, not keyless. Don't think the immobiliser drains anything to speak of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 15:53
No it is impressive don’t get me wrong 

I was expecting the gel one to be flat. What I was impressed by was how when the bike has a stripped loom no key or immobiliser there seemingly is no drain from the bike just the general drop that it would naturally have 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 16:19
I would have expected the gel one to have been flat after 6 months from self discharge alone. Nevermind drain from the bike. Shows it's a quality battery. 

But yeah, say what you like about Italian bikes but the electrics aren't that bad I don't think. Much like the reputation for being hard to work on is undeserved. Helped a mate swap road to track fairing on his CBR6. Thinking it's a 5 minute job on my bike. Took us ages, so fiddly. 

You racing this year then?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 16:32
The Kawasaki is a lot harder to work on than the Aprilia oddly. It’s robust and all well put together but working on the aprilia is a joy and the quality difference is noticeable. 

I won’t do a full season and just dip into the rounds I fancy doing when I know I’ve plenty of mates there for support etc. 

Have you sorted out the gp shift on the Gen1 yet? You be running a q/s ? I forget where we got to with it ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 16:44
Ah nice. Probably be a shorter season again with COVID anyway. 

I just need to tap out the hole in my rearsets and I have a shift lever that'll work. Haven't touched the bike in months. Literally just started it up yesterday to change the oil. Actually, I also got my lad to help change the rear tyre. That counts as maintenance I guess. 





Going to get it MOTd and hope to get out now and again for the odd ride. Got a 2 week old daughter now so going to be a quieter year from a biking perspective. Though I'm pretty set on meeting badapple Adam at Snetterton towards the end of summer. Never ridden there before and looks like my cup of tea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 16:47
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Ah less impressive than I thought then ha. I'd lost a gel battery almost every year over winter before so I thought I was on to something. Yeah, I tried measuring the parasitic drain of the electrics and it's less than the margin of error of my multimeter. Effectively nothing. 

EDIT: My gen 1 has the factory immobiliser but no alarm connected. So like a typical road bike really, not keyless. Don't think the immobiliser drains anything to speak of.

The gen1 doesn’t have an immobiliser so nothing to drain your batt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 16:50
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

The gen1 doesn’t have an immobiliser so nothing to drain your batt. 

Nothing coded to the key or anything? So if I wanted to I could replace the key barrel with a switch?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 17:19
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

The gen1 doesn’t have an immobiliser so nothing to drain your batt. 

Nothing coded to the key or anything? So if I wanted to I could replace the key barrel with a switch?

Nope, nothing security wise at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 17:25
Ah, good to know thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 17:34
I was inspired by this thread so I went and bought a can of Esso Synergy 99+ (no ethanol!), plugged in the 30 amp fuses and it fired right up! That's with a lithium battery. Just need to get out for a ride now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 08:13
How's the new family member Owen? Good to see the lad helping out. Funny you've brought this up as I tried to start my trackbike up and it was dead. Standard battery, race loom no key and I've never touched the battery its always started easily but the battery is now knackered. I borrowed the Shido from the 675 which has had a top up charge which took 10 minutes and it fired straight up. The Daytona unit fits like a glove so I'll just use that instead of buying another one and swap it over as needed.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 08:53
Sounds like a plan Adam. Especially as you'll never ride both at the same time. I think moving forward I'm going to always keep batteries indoors over winter. Must have helped somewhat. 

Yeah new baby is good thanks. Little girl called Betsy. Got the full set now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 09:40
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Yeah new baby is good thanks. Little girl called Betsy. Got the full set now. 
I don't think that's possible in this f*cked up gender divergent world, you will only know in time! Each to their own but for god's sake the world has gone mad!

Good luck though and take care on the bike after those sleepless nights LOL



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2021 at 10:29
Ha yeah I did think it was a bit controversial in the census only having 2 genders to choose from, no 'other'. Well, they have what they were born with. What they do after that is up to them. Doesn't bother me really so long as they're making the most of life. 

I hope they get into bikes though. Would be a dream to go racing or do trackdays together. My dad used to race his LC350 so I would have loved to have ridden at least Cadwell with him. See if he could lap quicker on his Aprilia RS250 than I can on the Mille. Been estranged for years though so that's not happening. 

We find lack of sleep isn't much of a problem, we don't do too bad. But we do lack in freedom of time. You really have to change your schedule to match theirs don't you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2021 at 23:39
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Had my Shido lithium battery sat indoors next to my desk since last September. I push the button to check the charge indicator now and again and it's always been full. Stuck it back in the bike yesterday to fire it up for the first time in 6 months. No topping up with a charger, no checking voltage with multimeter. Fired instantly with cold start lever pulled right back. That's on a couple litres of old fuel that's been sat in the tank all winter too. 

Really pleased with how long it maintained it's charge. With previous batteries I'd have topped them up before starting for the first time after winter and still had my fingers crossed. 

Also, bloody hell I'd forgotten how nice the sounds and smells are. Was my last day of paternity leave and bikes hadn't really crossed my mind too much over winter. Must have missed it. 
Hi Owen, mine was left for over 2 year and it still started the bike.
But you still got people putting them on Optimiser, even though they are Lithium ones, then while the bike has been in the van overnight and this was about a month ago, it was never give a chance to warm up by leaving the ignition on for a few 90 odd seconds. It tripped the electronics out on a R1M, if you are going to treat it as a lead acid you deserve all they get £, the one the Aprilia is 6 years old although not used a lot, it is as good as the day I bought it 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 12:44
Nice, hopefully I get the same. As it is my biggest concern at a trackday is the bike starting in the morning. For no real reason as it's generally been reliable. The way it sprung to life on a cold morning after 6 months of winter gave me some confidence though. How it ought to be. No one has time for battery anxiety, especially on a bike that is so hard to bump start. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 14:11
Hi Owen, they put one in a freezer overnight on YouTube and then bolted it to a Harley D in the morning, they never left the ignition on to warm it? But it started the fourth time, on every attempt it was getting faster in turning it over.
If it was a Lead Acid I don't know if it would be worth even bolting it to the bike, better taking it to the tip. 
So they can handle the cold better than a lead acid.
My main reason for buying one in the first place was the speed of charging, and they don't labour like a lead acid, thus protecting the sprag after continuous starts. They just stop, should not attempt a start under 50% it says that in the instructions. 
Noco have stopped doing the battery monitors that show the lights of battery status, so I found a place Slovakia I think, if you need one I can go through my emails and find the place 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:35
My battery has lights for showing it's charge level. Though it's under the bracket that secures the battery. So typically I use a multimeter to check charge. Or to be fair the voltmeter on the dash of the bike does a good enough job for me. Seems to be close enough to the multimeter.

Yeah my main motivation (aside from the old AGM one dying over winter) was having a good kick to turn the motor over. You certainly seem to get that from the little lithium battery. Lasting forever when not in use is just a bonus really. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 16:56
Tapmyhead (Nige), and who built his 1103, and done a superb job amazing infact. He's has put 300cca Shido on that big bore£.
I have a bigger Shido, a 14.
They are so small anyway, John's leads make a big difference, the oem  starter leads are a joke when you see John's and the speed it spins over. hemi had the first Shido on here as I remember then I bought mine in 2015 and it as good as the day I bought it. 
People go on about Yusa lead acid, well I will never go back ever to lead acid. 
8min charge from flat, because I didn't do the reconnection procedure, and it started the bike, no lead acid could do that 👌
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 17:23
I'm still on OEM starter leads and it spins over plenty quick with the lithium. I did beef up the charging cables from reg/rec to battery though, which gave a much healthier charging voltage. Might look into beefing up the starter leads though for the hell of it. 

Yeah the fast charge isn't something I've really thought about, having never had to charge the thing. But I remember doing a euro and my mate had left the key in the ignition when dropping the bike at Donny. Well he'd left it in a cupboard for someone else to load onto the stillage and they left the key in. Anyway, arrived at Spain and battery was completely dead. Spent the first morning going through Spanish villages trying to find a replacement. With a lithium it would at least not completely die from discharge. And like you say, 8 minutes charge and it'll start the bike. Wouldn't even miss the sighting laps would you. That's peace of mind for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 17:29
Ah, is this the trick with the starter leads? Extra cable from solenoid to battery +ve? Similar to what I did for the charging, except from the solenoid to battery. Makes sense.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 18:10
It could be Owen, I remember soldering something around the solonoid area. Mine did have a hot start problem even though it was a twin, but I was using hotter sparkplugs because the recommended would not self clean, but the lead work did cure it.
I don't understand why people want maintainers on them Lithium, the R1 done nine months when I bought it, I had a Lithium charger ready but it started first time. 
We are supposed to be going to Almeria at the end of October, but the 27th for 5 days. That was the last time I rode it 2019 October £. Hopefully I'll get to ride it to see if the throttle is OK, and get the Aprilia finished, be really nice to hear that bike, it hasn't run since July 2018👍
The lead to the starter motor was pathetic £, and something out of a wireless £. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2021 at 19:45
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

My battery has lights for showing it's charge level. Though it's under the bracket that secures the battery.


Mine's the same so I cut a slot in the centre of the bracket as it's only plastic. Doesn't affect it's ability to hold the battery, but means I can see the lights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:48
Originally posted by Bladerunner919 Bladerunner919 wrote:

Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

My battery has lights for showing it's charge level. Though it's under the bracket that secures the battery.


Mine's the same so I cut a slot in the centre of the bracket as it's only plastic. Doesn't affect it's ability to hold the battery, but means I can see the lights.

Simple but effective.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:52
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

It could be Owen, I remember soldering something around the solonoid area. Mine did have a hot start problem even though it was a twin, but I was using hotter sparkplugs because the recommended would not self clean, but the lead work did cure it.
I don't understand why people want maintainers on them Lithium, the R1 done nine months when I bought it, I had a Lithium charger ready but it started first time. 
We are supposed to be going to Almeria at the end of October, but the 27th for 5 days. That was the last time I rode it 2019 October �£. Hopefully I'll get to ride it to see if the throttle is OK, and get the Aprilia finished, be really nice to hear that bike, it hasn't run since July 2018👍
The lead to the starter motor was pathetic �£, and something out of a wireless �£. 

Maybe the twin wants the lead to the starter motor doing too. Doesn't really struggle on start, but sometimes the clocks will reset to km. 

Enjoy Almeria. 5 days in the sun riding your bike every day. Last time I was on track was September 2019 at Catalunya. Be interesting if you take both bikes to see what the difference in pace is for you. Reckon the R1 would be quicker everywhere. Straights, braking, mid corner and exits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 12:31
Owen the the lead to the starter is thin compared to John's, the trouble is I do all the mods together so never know where the biggest difference is.
The R1 is an unfair comparison, it is nothing like the oem one I bought, but the oem   does have many faults. Where my mate bought the 2020 Aprilia factory seems to have it all.
Coming out of corners, if you got the balls there ain't nothing to touch the R1  with the slide control.
The only limiting factor is me, it was only my 3rd trackday and only the second one one the R1.
The electronics are very limited now with four full power maps and four traction control settings gone, i say gone which they have but replaced - 10, -20,-30,-40.
The Aprilia 2020 with be there we are about the speed, raced similar bikes especially TZ350, so that will be a good comparison. But every time I have improved on it, but two years of not riding that I will try to bit in the summer.
Some riders think that the electronics will make the go fast, but mine has hone the other way, it is meant for safety on the road really, not on  track. At nearly 61 years old it is a bit of fun, but some idiots take it too seriously. If you want to race, race properly. Someone in the group said I was too choppy to overtake on that long left and mentioned it at the bar in the evening and said it stopped him overtaking me, bollocks I was a half a lap in front at the end of the session. Told him he ought to go to specksavers and Sheene and Croz never had a problem at Brands😂. That is trackdays for you. 
Owen if you can make it for October it would be really nice in Almeria. It is reasonably priced less than 500 quid I think. 
Change that lead to the starter too with nice copper one  if you can too👍
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 14:48
I think I had my first lithium battery in 2010, it was from racing batteries and was only just able to start the bike, they specified it for the rsv but I think they used the original small battery as a comparison and I didn’t keep it on for long as I didn’t want to destroy the sprag, shido’s came out then and I’ve never had a problem since, I had an ltx14 first and when my zx9r needed a new battery I put it on that and bought the ltx16bs for the rsv, they’re the same size as the 14.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 16:51
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

Owen the the lead to the starter is thin compared to John's, the trouble is I do all the mods together so never know where the biggest difference is.
The R1 is an unfair comparison, it is nothing like the oem one I bought, but the oem   does have many faults. Where my mate bought the 2020 Aprilia factory seems to have it all.
Coming out of corners, if you got the balls there ain't nothing to touch the R1  with the slide control.
The only limiting factor is me, it was only my 3rd trackday and only the second one one the R1.
The electronics are very limited now with four full power maps and four traction control settings gone, i say gone which they have but replaced - 10, -20,-30,-40.
The Aprilia 2020 with be there we are about the speed, raced similar bikes especially TZ350, so that will be a good comparison. But every time I have improved on it, but two years of not riding that I will try to bit in the summer.
Some riders think that the electronics will make the go fast, but mine has hone the other way, it is meant for safety on the road really, not on  track. At nearly 61 years old it is a bit of fun, but some idiots take it too seriously. If you want to race, race properly. Someone in the group said I was too choppy to overtake on that long left and mentioned it at the bar in the evening and said it stopped him overtaking me, bollocks I was a half a lap in front at the end of the session. Told him he ought to go to specksavers and Sheene and Croz never had a problem at Brands😂. That is trackdays for you. 
Owen if you can make it for October it would be really nice in Almeria. It is reasonably priced less than 500 quid I think. 
Change that lead to the starter too with nice copper one  if you can too👍
 

I think I'd have trouble holding an R1 open to the stop all the way to the braking marker on the straights. Let alone trusting the slide control on exit £

Ha imagine coming to you in the bar to tell you they weren't able to overtake. I mean fair enough saying "bloody hell you were quick, couldn't keep up" but to try to tell you you were all over the shop. Sometimes in novice you can come up behind a long train of riders which makes it hard to overtake. If they're slow but hard to pass I just come back into pit or holding area for a bit to make some space. I'm more interested in trying to go faster myself really, no point in trying to beat anyone. 
Owen
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