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Are all Eddy's really the only ones?

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Slackey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 15:57
Ok so this is interesting.

Do a couple of things to the bike today, fitting the Renegade air box, Forza EPROM etc.

So I strip the air box out and fit the new one and then set about fitting my Eddy air tubes. But when I removed the cover there were already genuine ones in there? Ok a bit weird I thought, looks like the bike has not been touched but maybe some one has done a few things.

Next I take the ECU off and open it to fit the EPROM and inside there is an Edwards EPROM, complete with the factory glue on it. Checking the side of the ECU that say Edwards too.

So now I am confused!

But the plot thickens.....I had put the tank back on so too late to measure the TB's, however the holes in the bottom of the airbox measure 57mm and it has short velocity stacks....another a Eddy trait.

So I check the engine, it is marked V990RR the same as the Eddy engines are.

Ok so I pump the VIN in to the Piaggio Aprilia site and it comes up as RSV 1000 R 'EVO' NERO A. *3*

WTF is that? RSV1000R is the Gen 2 bike, but this is certainly a Gen 1??

So a bit more digging and using the same VIN as mine but changing the last 3 digits I find that 001-273 are listed as Edwards Replicas and 274-303 are listed as mine is.

So now begs the question have I actually got the same mechanics etc as the Eddy but without the paint scheme?

The V990RR engine on the Eddy was a halfway house....V990RR denotes the Gen 2 engine, but in the case of Eddy Reps it was essentially the V990RP engine with the later conrods, stainless valves etc and used the Gen1 heads. It was built specifically for the Eddy....or so we think.

My bike is straight, there is no doubt in my mind about that and the VIN matches the other bikes that fall within the same description and run of last three numbers.

A call to Griff and he is as confused as me lol

This could all be very exciting.....or very strange. I think an email directly to Aprilia is in order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 16:08
Maybe the very late ones had the last of the gen1 engines in eddy spec as you have found..interesting to say the least


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARNZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 16:10
I wouldn't be surprised by yr findings,to many Edwards spec parts available butt the numbers already built. I Bet tho there's not many slipped thru like yrs

Stealth Edwards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 16:18
According to the Aprilia VIN database there are only 30 like mine.....if that's the case then that makes them rarer than Eddy's lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 16:39
Ha ha ...go lift that tank and measure the throttle bodies ASAP!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 16:54
I have no reason to think that they aren't 57's at the moment. Griff is going to be seeing it again soon so I will let the master decide what he thinks lol

I have emailed Aprilia, I will report back what they say. But in the mean time all indications are pointing one way✌️👍👅
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:12
Found this ...maybe not a lot of help though
 
01-03 - RP
These engines had all the well known upgrades of bigger intake valves, higher lift intake cams, and new clutch assembly. They also had new shift forks and shift drum, new exhaust valves and new spring retainers. These engines did not have larger throttle bodies retaining the original 51mm size. Aprilia never fitted 54mm TB's. All 54's are 51's that have been bored out after sale.

03 Mille had NG added after serial number for "new gear" close ratio gear set.

The 03 Edwards model had the stronger connecting rods from the 04 and later models along with 57mm TB's. There are a couple other internal differences including a different oil spray rail cut to clear the stronger rods, primary drive gear set, and sprag clutch housing.

04-09 "magnesium" - RR
33mm EX valve motors have the number "360" stamped on the inside of the exhaust port header flange.
 
There was something that caught the eye on the back of the engine;

It is as follows;

ROTAX V990NG
"Engine serial" RR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:17
My engine casing is stamped (number omitted obviously) V990 RR ****** NG

The evidence is stacking up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Slippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:27
Did you per chance look to see what VIN's 304 to 461 were listed as?
2003 Edwards Rep 247
2000 Kawasaki ZX7R
2013 BMW K1300s 30th Anniversary
2005 Landrover Defender 110 Td5 Double Cab
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:44
Slackey, this is exactly the same as mine. But mine is yellow. 03 R model first registered in 04, confusing as f**k RR engine designation, eddy tubes, early shape air boot, 57s with short stacks and eddy complete ecu. I got about as far as you did and gave up trying to figure out what's going on. All I know is it has most of the parts you would want to upgrade and from talking to previous owners, they seem to have been put there by the factory. So yes, it's definitely legit and has a load of what appear to be Eddy's sloppy seconds but what is actually in the engine I can't tell you. Or why they exist as an R rather than an RR or half Eddy. My guess would be using up overstock before gen2 production. Maybe the eddy leftovers were just closest to hand that day. Who knows?!?!?! This was during a stage of upheaval in Aprilia with financial issues and impending Piaggio takeover. Add in a sprinkling of Italian flair and....I dunno...Gen1.5?

Let me know if you find anything more solid out than my guesswork. It's a good feeling when you pull it apart and find these things though isn't it? Ha ha. I had equal measures of tea, smiles and head scratching.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:51
Originally posted by Big Slippy Big Slippy wrote:

Did you per chance look to see what VIN's 304 to 461 were listed as?


The numbers using the start of my VIN stopped at 303. I think that some a Eddy Reps had a different set of figures at the start.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 17:54
Originally posted by MountainMan MountainMan wrote:

Slackey, this is exactly the same as mine. But mine is yellow. 03 R model first registered in 04, confusing as f**k RR engine designation, eddy tubes, early shape air boot, 57s with short stacks and eddy complete ecu. I got about as far as you did and gave up trying to figure out what's going on. All I know is it has most of the parts you would want to upgrade and from talking to previous owners, they seem to have been put there by the factory. So yes, it's definitely legit and has a load of what appear to be Eddy's sloppy seconds but what is actually in the engine I can't tell you. Or why they exist as an R rather than an RR or half Eddy. My guess would be using up overstock before gen2 production. Maybe the eddy leftovers were just closest to hand that day. Who knows?!?!?! This was during a stage of upheaval in Aprilia with financial issues and impending Piaggio takeover. Add in a sprinkling of Italian flair and....I dunno...Gen1.5?

Let me know if you find anything more solid out than my guesswork. It's a good feeling when you pull it apart and find these things though isn't it? Ha ha. I had equal measures of tea, smiles and head scratching.


Good to hear I am not the only one then lol

I have been scratching my head and searching the internet all afternoon for answers. I will let you know what Aprilia say....if they reply
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 18:11
We're special! Ha ha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickyBoy1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 03:13
Ooooo very interesting Matey!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 08:00
Definatley sounds like they just used up the stock they had around. Would normally have gone into the spares supply chain but as said above they didn't have any spare cash around that time so saved money by using what they had on bikes they could sell instead of spares that might sit for years before sold.

Either way good for you Slackey.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 09:21
funny someone asked me a couple of years ago if this may have happened as his bike had 57's etc but original owner swore blind he had never touched it!
.

.

i said dont be silly ha ha think i was wrong.EmbarrassedConfused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 21:51
I read or got told by someone years ago that Aprilia used whatever was on the shelf for the run out gen1 models.

Most of the edwards parts are just standard parts that were to be used in the newer gen2's,bar they kept the old dual plug heads and just added the later closer ratio box internals,stronger rods,57's etc to the then current cases.

Obviously the paint job was different but effectively it was a part bin bitsa at a difficult time in their history.

I have a book on the definitive history of Aprilia that came with my bike and that info probably came from this book,I'll try and find it and have another read when I get time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 21:53
So, a total mismatch of incompatible parts? Sounds like the rest of the modded bikes here then. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 2014 at 22:11
Were do you get mismatch & incompatible parts from?

Gen 2's were just an evolution,but as the cam timing on these engines can vary up to 14+ degrees as standard it just shows how non critical the parts can be and still work.

Look upon the last Gen 1's as gen 1.5's and you won't be far out.

Have you never wondered why there can be such a difference between two outwardly identical bikes performance wise?  Most of it's down to the way they were bolted together when first built.

At one time I think I'm right in saying the Austrians built the engines (properly) and shipped them to Italy ready to fit,later ones were thrown together by Luigi in Italy and the quality control went out the window during their troubled period.

One has to be surprised by the amount of abuse these engines can take and yet still produce the goods,a truly good design that bears out the fact they are so under stressed as supplied.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 08:03
Totally agree Ian , for what ever reason these engines seem to have such a wide operating range I wonder if they wern't built to run on everything from Kerosene to Avgas to paint thinners.

Even the small valve engines can be made to make decent power it just takes time and effort....oh and dont set the valve timing at stupid o'clock , the results are not very err encouraging.

A lash up of parts certainly but not incompatiable.

Frankies N02 engine was heading into the 130 bhp 80+ftlbs area without difficulty and had circumstances been any different I reckon we would have got there too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 08:59
Originally posted by Johnboy Johnboy wrote:

So, a total mismatch of incompatible parts? Sounds like the rest of the modded bikes here then. LOL


How is an Edwards engine, ECU and other ancillaries a mash up of incompatible parts? If you take the decals off of both my bike and an Edwards they are essentially the same. The only difference is the Edwards was supplied with a twin system that could be fitted. When they left the factory it is my understanding that system was in a box and the bikes were fitted with the standard single system.

So all be it not a numbered Edwards bike is it a Edwards in disguise?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:04
Originally posted by Slackey Slackey wrote:

[QUOTE=Johnboy] 
is it a Edwards in disguise?
i prefer transformers ...robots in disguise ..oops hijackEmbarrassed


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sabre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:13
Haven't you got any work to do Slackey?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:18
I think John was just making a joke. Not actually suggesting a backwoods shed lash up.

I think I'll refer to mine as an NGM Edwards. Still an entertaining old nutter underneath but just not looking like himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slackey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:23
Originally posted by Sabre Sabre wrote:

Haven't you got any work to do Slackey?


On leave this week
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:24
Interesting thread this guys, cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 09:40
Originally posted by MountainMan MountainMan wrote:

I think John was just making a joke. Not actually suggesting a backwoods shed lash up.

I think I'll refer to mine as an NGM Edwards. Still an entertaining old nutter underneath but just not looking like himself.


Well spotted that man
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 10:02
Originally posted by Slackey Slackey wrote:

On leave this week
is that why you were on the lash all day


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sabre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2014 at 11:41
Originally posted by Slackey Slackey wrote:

Originally posted by Sabre Sabre wrote:

Haven't you got any work to do Slackey?


On leave this week

It sorta shows LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mixdrive1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2014 at 19:21
 I dont think the Italians are that stupid. I think it was a conscious decision made at the factory to "up-rate" the performance of the last of the gen1's as they had already started making the gen2's. 
  
 Why in 2004 would you buy a gen1, without a massive discount, when the gen2 was new shape and had more performance!
 Maybe putting the eddy bits in evened the performance slightly between the 2 models!



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