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    Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 19:26
I have a Meta M357 alarm immobiliser I'd like to remove as I'm unsure of its age and when the battery dies (usually 10 years or less) the immobiliser will make it a paperweight unless bypassed.  I'd like to remove it anyway as I find alarms a pointless exercise and a battery drain.

I can tell its wired into the ECU but beyond that know little about them.  I know that there are work arounds such as shorting the immobiliser block connector pins but I don't want a bodge job but a complete removal.

I'm pretty competent with electrics and soldering but don't want to mess this up, so would only contemplate a DIY removal if I knew what wires needed replacing within the ECU.  No circuit diagram with the alarm so am a bit in the dark.  Can anyone suggest someone reliable in the Gloucestershire area who might be able to do this for me reasonably?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 19:40
You could try google for fitting instructions? 

I’ve always found the easiest way is to find the main box and look where all the wires went to. Cut or trim then make them good one at a time. 
Done it twice with no issue. One was a meta and one a datatool. 

Find the main box and it will present itself as easy. They tended to use the headlamp as a live on the ones I removed if that’s of any help but both were Gen2 models. 

Glous isn’t that far from Griff don’t forget 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 20:05
I’ve removed a few over the years, meta and datatool and as wiggins says just traced them back and cut them out of the loom and made good with butt solder connectors, they have all worked fine and I’m definitely no electrical expert .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2021 at 22:41
it’s not normally complicated. They usually break into the fuel pump loom and sometimes the kill switch feed. If it’s just a tap to the loom then just remove the alarm wiring and job done. If the alarm became the feed and broke the oem wiring to run through the alarm, you will need to rejoin the original wires together once it’s out. 

If it’s a gen2 oem type workarounds may not work as the stock immobilisor is very basic by comparison in what it disables. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 09:11
I removed a 357T from my Fireblade and, as others havwe said, it was really easy to follow the wiring to see where the original loom had been cut for the immobilisation circuits and to just reinstate them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 10:49
Thanks Guys.  It appears there are wires running into the ECU and to the loom.   My guess is that the loom wires would have had to be cut to re-route electrical feed through the immobiliser (fuel pump feed) so finding and re-joining the exact wires may not be as easy as I had hoped if I cannot find the output to the fuel pumps.  Ditto the ECU.  I would hazard a guess that one or more circuits were interrupted and rerouted to the immobiliser, so finding where they've broken the circuit and bridging the PCB would be needed.

I'll have another look when I get time, but off it has to come.

Griff's is just under a 2 hour ride so a fair distance off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 11:37
You are right that the loom would be cut, but that would just be a snip to a wire at some point in the loom, and that cut would then be bridged by the wires from the immobiliser. If you can trace the wires coming out of the alarm box you will find somwhere where a wire has been cut and the ends of two wires from the alarm joined in.

The immobiliser wires will normally just be plain black. The wiring in the loom is all colour coded so if you find, for instance, a red wire with a green stripe that has been cut and joined to the black wires you would just need to remove the black wires and connect the two cut ends of the red/green wire. The routing to the immobiliser is all done with additional wiring, not by rerouting the original wires.

I hope that makes some sort of sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 11:52
That's very helpful, thank you. I've located the alarm box inconveniently located between rear subrame and bodywork, meaning I may have to remove the whole back end to get to it.  It's been both glued to the frame and cable tied, infuriatingly.  May just leave it where it is and disconnect power feed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2021 at 18:41
Located the alarm immobiliser annoyingly needing the back end bodywork removed to get at it.  Wiring is a pigs ear and not a very professional job.  Wiggled several wires to locate where they went and traced some to indicators and to the main loom under the right hand side panel where they've made a dogs dinner of things with tatty insulation tape everywhere.  Started the bike to ensure I hadn't wiggled anything lose and "Diag1" code immediately came up.  I thought that was more related to TPS?

Left the immobiliser to re-arm itself after several minutes with key removed, and restarted the bike and thankfully the error code has cleared.  It's such a mess I think I'll just pay a professional to sort it all out and make a decent job of the re-wiring.  If I mess up and can't trace the reason then that's on me.  If a professional comes across an issue, he'll be better equipped to fault find and repair.  I reckon £120 to £150 as an outside guess based on a couple of hours work plus the vat.

I am happy to strip and rebuild any loudspeaker or crossover as that's what I do for a living but bike electrics aren't something I feel competent to tackle unless it had been done neatly and everything was accessible.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 00:12
I removed the same model Meta from my SV1000s when it started playing playing up as the internal battery died,and like you was a bit worried about doing the job.

I needn't have worried though as they're very simple to remove,anywhere wires have been cut or T'd into it's very obvious given that all the factory wiring is colour coded and all the Meta wires were black,just a simple case of 'if it's T'd cut off the joining wire' and if a wire's been cut just find both ends and re join after removing the alarm section.

Honestly it took longer to find the damn unit and physically get access than it did to return the bike wiring to oe spec.

Judging by my install by "A trained Meta installer"  or monkey at my local main stealer,the mods to the harness will all be obvious and probably advertising their location by being badly wrapped in insulating tape Ouch

Be methodical and it'll be a doddle,just disconnect the battery first though to be on the safe side


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 10:26
The wires to the indicators can just be removed - they are only to flash them when the alarm goes off and for arming/disarming.

Where are you? Perhas there's a forum member nearby that's comfortable with the electrics and can help?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 10:42
I'm in Dursley, Gloucestershire.  I guess it's a job I'm more than capable of doing but lack the confidence to launch into it.  I think if you've done one before, it might appear far less daunting but knowing my luck...!  I'd be more than happy to have someone with experience look at it and would supply coffee and Jaffa cakes!

I may have another go if I get free time to do it as it can't stay.  The chances of being left stranded are always in the back of my mind with immobilisers.

Just found the paperwork.  It's a Meta M537 V2 with separate remote transponder radio linked to a double button alarm.  One does the alarm on/off/test and one disarms the immobiliser and restores fuel pump electrical feed.

I keep getting the Diag 1 code unless I follow a certain sequence.  It's a right PITA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 14:10
Not going to believe this but I just got back from Fowler’s Bristol and fancied a ride out that took me past Dursley and then back home! Small world. 

Do some googling but hazarding a total guess the Diag1 may just mean it’s immobilised and won’t start? Unless it starts in that mode….? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 15:30
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Not going to believe this but I just got back from Fowler’s Bristol and fancied a ride out that took me past Dursley and then back home! Small world. 

Do some googling but hazarding a total guess the Diag1 may just mean it’s immobilised and won’t start? Unless it starts in that mode….? 

 

Are you local to Durzle then? Smile

A mate just up the road has just taken delivery of a Gen 1 after riding mine.  We'll have to start a local club at this rate LOL

The bike starts with a Diag1 error code.  I suspect it's power to fuel pumps upsetting TBS or something if the button is pressed on the alarm before switching ignition on.  It seems pretty random though, but definitely related to the immobiliser hence one reason I want the thing gone.  Theives use vans and several beefy types to load a bike quickly and know how to bypass these alarms so it's pointless having the things fitted when a good lock would be a better job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 15:59
Diag 1 , 0 or -1 I thought was TPS related as mentioned earlier. 

Are you sure the diagnostic plug under the seat is disconnected ? It should be but often people see it and plug the ends together putting it in diagnostics mode. I only found out as I tried it once on my Gen1 whilst wondering how the plug had become disconnected. 

I’m in Calne Wiltshire. Few aprilias around, seeing a silver Gen1 Tuono on my rode back also in Devizes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 17:27
Good point...it may still be connected...trouble is all the original wiring positions have been messed with so finding it is a challenge.  Would you mind doing me a favour and checking the colour of the diagnostic cable wire?  That's the only way I'll be able to locate it.

Calne's not so far off...we'll have to meet up for a ride one of these days Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 17:39
Sounds good to me

See these pics. Under mesh on the R/H side 

Should be disconnected. It’s connected when you want to adjust the TPS (though apparently throttle cables need disconnecting to make the adjustments) then once that’s set you should disconnect it. 

Added another image to help locating 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 17:56
Grand job, thank you.  Yes, I think someone's connected it...probably the same numpties who installed the immobiliser!

I recall doing mine with throttle cables insitu but with the idler screw all the way out.  Throttle cables are a bit of a PITA to mess with but as long as there's slack enough that they shut fully I would have thought that was all that mattered?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 18:51
Just checked and sure enough it was bundled in behind wires that had been messed with and was connected. I disconnected it and the code has gone, but now if I re-connect it and turn on the ignition, no Diag Code comes up at all!  Something somewhere isn't right. Don't know if it's related but the bike won't start at all without choke and the choke can't be let off unless on the road with a mile or two under the belt, even then until up to full temp it runs a bit roughly at idle so it needs a good tune.  I'm wondering if the TPS sensor could have been damaged from being left connected with the bike running?  It's running quite rich too.

As I sort one issue, more minor niggles are showing themselves and I guess that's expected from a bike which hasn't been used in years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 18:56
It’s not a choke but a fast idle, I would say it needs setting up by Griff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 19:19
Good point.  I'll check the fuel mixture screws tomorrow to ensure they're not too far screwed in and set it by the workshop manual for best running for now.  Been a few years since I tinkered with one of these but I set my last two up and had Griff fine adjust the pulse modulators in the ECU and fine tune balance the TBs.  Well worth a trip for the bacon butties!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 19:42
You didn’t re connect the map wire on the ecu plug did you. That should be cut or it goes onto a restricted mapping assuming it’s the oem eeprom. 

The diag connector just enables an earth to the ecu which is why alarm fitters sometime fiddle with it to use for their alarm earth. If it won’t go into diag mode, check one end goes to the earth point. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 20:02
Thanks Spoonz.  No, it's the RP58 eprom and I've left it on Map2 (derestricted).  Could be an earthing issue as they've buggered about with the wiring.  I can simply make up a new earth point on the frame and try connecting the ecu end to that and see if the Diag code comes up.  They have used it somewhere along the line for the immobiliser as the code came up if you depressed the immobiliser button on the remote before switching the ignition on first (ie only in that order).  I noticed 4 black wires cut which were bundled into the loom behind the RHS panel, and figured they might have been part of the old alarm wiring as the history shows an "upgraded V2 alarm replacement" was done...by a monkey looking at the job they did.

One thing I haven't checked yet is if the restrictor boot in the airbox was left in but figured as the blue & green wire was cut to the eprom, whoever did that would have also derestricted the airbox otherwise that could have it running rich as another cause.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 20:08
I always found on a cold Gen1 that the fast idle needed to be fully on and then just press the starter and no throttle. It would need to warm a fair bit with the idle set high before it could be turned fully off. 
If I rode immediately it would cut out unless the fast idle was half on. 

If the bike was warm the fast idle was not required. The Gen1 floods very easily hence no throttle on a cold start. They always smell fruity. 

The diag shouldn’t come up on the dash with the plug disconnected. 
But yes a simple trip to Griff will sort any running woes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 20:20
Yes, my last Gen1 was the same.  Needed running for about a mile before it would idle without cutting out and on fast idle start, a blip of throttle sees some black smoke from the pipe which vanishes when warm.

I apply full "choke" and don't touch the throttle and it fires up first time every time.  Fitted the 150A starter solenoid which definitely improved initial cranking speed.

No code is coming up with it disconnected....it's just no code now comes up with it connected either!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 20:24
Unless I’m misunderstanding the way it works then if there is no fault it won’t throw a code up. Other than ‘Diag’ as it’s in that mode. No code is good. Single digit refers to the TPS and all other codes if there is a fault is two digits. 

This gives an interesting read however, ref the position of the fast idle on start up on the last post. 


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 21:00
well done getting the alarm off, i was quoted telephone numbers to get one removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 21:37
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

Unless I’m misunderstanding the way it works then if there is no fault it won’t throw a code up. Other than ‘Diag’ as it’s in that mode. No code is good. Single digit refers to the TPS and all other codes if there is a fault is two digits. 

This gives an interesting read however, ref the position of the fast idle on start up on the last post. 


 
that post is wrong. The diag mode always shows either a fault code or a tps position and the word diag.  If the tps is spot on it just displays 0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Oct 2021 at 21:40
I did wonder thanks for clearing that up Colin. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2021 at 10:01
Well, after attempting removal myself, it's clear that it isn't as straightforward as hoped.  It transpires that originally a Meta M357V1 was fitted and subsequently replaced at 10 years old by a Meta M357V2.  Whoever did the work left some of the old wires in place rather than removing them and tidying the loom, simply installing a V2 using different feed points and connections.  It's a mess.  I have a mobile mechanic coming with proper diagnostics tools to help remove it properly and to tidy up the wiring, testing everything to ensure there are no shorts or other issues.  He's quoted me 2 hours labour so with VAT I am expecting a bill of £200 but its money well spent imho.
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