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200 tyre on gen 2 ????

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IanG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 19:59
True,but remember that 190 only came in a flat 50 profile at the time,if the 190/55 profile had been available then ?

I do wonder if the 200 size is not a bit of overkill given the low power output of our designed in the 90's bikes?

I wouldn't bother,certainly not for road use,and given I seldom do trackwork these days I doubt I could be bothered with all the suspension work that might be involved on my Mille.

I hold the view that if you NEED super sticky trackday tyres and big brakes for the road then you are abusing the right to ride there.

Sport touring are perfectly adequate,track use maybe but if one is that serious then I'd assume a far better bike as a basis

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blacklines View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 21:20
My touring tyres grip pretty well on track but I get movement on the road. I figure they never get to track temperature on the road, plus the road surface is a lot looser and less predictable than a track surface.

I think 180 is plenty width for the Mille's power but more aggressive profiles are better for edge grip. Was initially thinking of getting 190/55 next to replace my current 180/55 Pilot Road 3s but I reckon I'd get more stability cornering from 180/60s..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 21:24
That sounds very likely actually,never tried one of those,perhaps next time Approve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 21:30
Hi Ian, If I wasn't doing Donington I would have got a more road bias tyre definitely. I wanted to exploit all the mods to their fullest. Also it is a good opportunity to find how it all really works as the trackday will be a proper test . I asked m9rko before I fitted the 200 about year ago , if it was slow to turn in as he was running 200/55 treaded and then 200/60 slick and he said it was fine. So I bought some scrubs first to see how they handled and also if I could tune in the suspension to suit,  I got there in the end .
Tbh like you say and I agree it's all a waste on the road as you can't use it without putting yourself in danger,  so if this trackday goes OK I might just use it on trackdays.  I will be putting a big Bore this winter and that also be a waste on the road , I think it quick enough really for anything road wise. Tyres are personal choice and it's what you are happy on and what gives you the biggest confidence.  I have only used a 190/55 before and never a 180 , but to me the difference is noticeable,  the look doesn't bother me ,I can use all the tyre so it is justified to me.  Lot of the mods you can't even see on the bike like the slipper and the dual stacks and others,  it's made to be purposeful, I want to know exactly how matches up with all what's there too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 21:41
A 180/60 is ample I think.
I understand what you are saying but to get power on much earlier is just confidence there's a reason bigger fatter tyres have come out and it's for 220bhp bikes .
In thundersport rsvs use 180 60s there quick and a reason for that.
I use a 180 on my 750 gsxr just because it's great handling bike if you want more contact patch drop your psi.
A 200 is just over the top you wouldn't see a 600 with a 200 on the never ones have far more bhp than a rsv.
I love rsvs had few for years went round Cadwell 144 so don't think am sl*ging you off I was just taking the piss coz a 200 wouldn't make it that much better av been on track since I was 18 and never heard that before I do apologise for that.
But honestly put a 180 60 on it will be far much better 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 21:50
I did a 142  on my gsxr 750 with no mods on a 180 60 only a can with standard gearing on Dunlop which are awesome now.
Honest mate it's confidence thing.
What am trying to say is 200 tyre is meant for certain bikes and a rsv is not one of them 
I like rsvs my mates still have them the sound of them makes me want one again but I love my gixxer now I certainly would not put a 200 on as is handles like it's on rails my rsv did on 180 60s as some bike 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2018 at 23:08
Hi Mark,  I wish I had tried the 180s especially with a 60 profile . I have done more on race rubber than on road.  All the bikes I raced had race rubber and they were all open class racers.  I only had a track bike when I was younger as I couldn't afford both.
I remember the only big bike I raced was a Wes Cooley replica with a full Yoshi engine and I bet that probably had a 160 tyre on it or a 180 at the most . I will see if the 200 is beneficial on track,  as the two big bores are running 190s.  Some people probably won't like my setup because it steers very quickly but not nervous and so stable but I like it that way .My only worry is that it might have too much weight on the front as the back is pushed up by the tyre.  You can't really test on the road ,so the tyre wear will tell the story.  Are you coming to Donington too , I can't remember who's coming now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 05:04

Another vote for 180/60 here. They are great, my bike feels lighter, rails though the corners. No problems getting on the gas off the corners. Much better than the 190/55 I use to run. Our bikes don't have 200 hp or even 180 hp on tap to turn a 200 tyre to benefit from it. Which has to be heavier and in addition  that extra weight is carried on the circumference of the wheel. So I can't see it helping acceleration. We put on 520 chains, lighter sprockets, lighter rotors, even lighter rims in order to reduce rotating mass to improve acceleration. So why put on a tyre which would defeat all of this? Another bonus, 180/60 are cheaper to buy than a 190/55 or 200 across all brands of tyres, so a good opportunity to select a premium brand.  At 140 rwhp a 180/60 is perfect.

Rides, Black 2001 Mille R/RR 1102 BB Track Bike, 2 Black Suzuki 1998 TL 1000S's
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 06:44
Hi Bill R, after I take these 200s off or put a set of wets on, I will buy a 180/60 as in my book you got to try to make a proper judgement, I will buy a scrub and see what I think of it.
When my  1127 big Bore is fitted, it's going to have 100 lbft torque,  that's might not be 200 bhp but it's going to certainly have more than now 😂 .  Four inlet cams, multi angle valve cut seats and ported big valve heads and lots more, probably 150bp plus.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 08:12
To be fair I'd run the 200s until they are worn and not worry. If they aren't rubbing when hot what harm can it do.

Also you might be surprised by modern rubber. My dad is 69 this year and used to race RD350s in the 80s. His idea of tyre capabilities is still a bit influenced by the comparatively rubbish tyres he used to use. He hates wet roads for example because the old tyres didn't like being on their sides in the wet, not like the modern touring tyres that don't feel much worse in the rain.

Wow, didn't realise you could bore a Mille to 1127.. Bet that would pull well out the bends.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 10:04
Originally posted by dog78 dog78 wrote:

When my  1127 big Bore is fitted, it's going to have 100 lbft torque,  that's might not be 200 bhp but it's going to certainly have more than now 😂 .  Four inlet cams, multi angle valve cut seats and ported big valve heads and lots more, probably 150bp plus.  



Wow,around 2010 Multistrada touring bike level then Wink

Tbh,I'm not sure what size tyre my mate had fitted on his Mutley but I do know it was a chunky dual purpose semi off road type at first, That was good enough for it to leave a lot of sports bikes on a twisty road no problem.

I've not ridden with him since he upgraded the Ohlins to fully electronic and went onto Metz 01 tyres but I know that bike is very capable even on off road tyres.

I've tried to persuade him to do a trackday to let it stretch his legs but he refuses on risk grounds which I can understand since one of our mates wrecked his pristine 1098s tricolure when he got over exuberant and high sided at Anglesey. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 13:03
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

To be fair I'd run the 200s until they are worn and not worry. If they aren't rubbing when hot what harm can it do.

Also you might be surprised by modern rubber. My dad is 69 this year and used to race RD350s in the 80s. His idea of tyre capabilities is still a bit influenced by the comparatively rubbish tyres he used to use. He hates wet roads for example because the old tyres didn't like being on their sides in the wet, not like the modern touring tyres that don't feel much worse in the rain.

Wow, didn't realise you could bore a Mille to 1127.. Bet that would pull well out the bends.
Hi blacklines,  I can totally understand where your dad's coming from as I am little younger at 58 and 59 this year. The tyres are unrecognisable compaared to tha late 70 and 80s , in a way I find it an asset,  I'd say that the track treaded tyre of now is as good as slick of yesterday.  A lot has changed with brakes and suspension which was even more shocking for me after 25 years away from bikes . And the first bike ride is a V4 Tuono with SC2 and 1 with Pfms with M4s and TC, I couldn't believe it,  the last bike I rode before that  86 slingshot 750 my mate had a RC30 although at the time that felt something else that Tuono was shocking. 
It wasn't the speed as the Yoshi motor had more power than the rsv and the mk 8 RGB which wasn't mine but I used to ride it if the rider was injured to plug chop it.
The handling and the tyres improvements were astonishing . There's plenty of room on the Gen 2 for a 200 tyre.  Like I said buy some scrubs first as they are expensive new and for 60 to 80 quid you can experience the difference, and if you don't like it you ain't lost much.  Also tyres of old didnt give you much warning when they were going to let go , infact I don't think you got nothing especially mixed with a 2 stroke open class racers .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 13:04
track days are marvelous, there are no pot holes, or gravel on the road and the surface is super grippy, I mean easily 10 times what normal roads are. The riders are OK,  make sure you start in the beginners group, and it's a great day. I have done over 200 track days, they are of the highlights of the year, you can't get nicked for speeding. You really are missing the ultimate riding experience IMHO Clap 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dog78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 13:24
The 1127 big Bore will be the last of two ever built,  Spoonvalley Racing only had four blanks so only enough for two builds , which now have been allocated and one for me.
Engine will be shipped to Spoonvalley Racing this winter for the build,  I am hoping for big power,  from what I have heard from a Fredrick who owns one in Sweden the torque is massive and it can produce the same power as a stock one at 60% throttle. 
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